Toyota Bz4X

[dronus]

My vague recollection was that Nissan had a service where they would send someone out to your house to assess feasibility for installing a charger, and if deemed suitable, you could then get one installed for a fairly hefty price. We declined that offer, said we already had a powerpoint in the garage and we’d just use that and the supplied mobile charger.

I think their concern was to verify that people had the ability to charge the car they were about to buy, or at least demonstrated an understanding of what was required. They didn’t want someone to buy a LEAF then come back a week later complaining that it stopped working .

You gotta remember this was 2014, when there were fewer than 500 battery EVs registered in the entire state. It was all very new.

Yeah i recall hearing about it, i was at Nissan buying a new car and i saw literature for one, and then when i asked about it the guy was rambling on about booking appointments for something, yeah what you say above sounds familiar.

I wonder how many of these Bz4x actually make it into the hands of actual owners (not youtube influencers) and how many actually get built/imported

 

[meloccom]

In 2013 more than a year before I was to take delivery of the Tesla, a texting teenager in a Jeep ran into the back of my 1999 A class Mercedes and wrote it off. I had to figure out what to do for a car for about a year all of a sudden.
I went to a big Holden dealer in Zetland to look at the Volt and take it for a test drive. It took a while to find a salesman who didn’t think they had one. I pointed out the volt two rows back next to a wall with a PowerPoint which I assumed they were using to charge the Volt.
Once the keys were found and about 6 other cars moved, he got in the car to move it out and the ICE started which surprised me, as I thought it was only supposed to run when the battery was flat.
On getting in the car I discovered that the battery was indeed flat, despite spending significant time next to a power point that could have ensured it was charged.
Off we went for a test drive, and I had no EV grin as it was groaning as the ICE buzzed away. Eventually I was able to regenerate some electricity into the battery and the ICE shut down and it switched to EV mode. The car was transformed, faster, quiet and smooth.
We got back and he told me no discounts no negotiation the price was the price and it was for this one as it was the only one they had.
I rarely lose my temper but I did that time and I asked him if he couldn’t be bothered to make sure the car was even charged for a test drive, “do you think you deserve this sale?”
He had no answer of course and I walked out.
Ended up with a second hand Holden Ute for that gap year but didn’t buy it from them.

 

[Vostok]

I went to a big Holden dealer in Zetland to look at the Volt and take it for a test drive. It took a while to find a salesman who didn’t think they had one. I pointed out the volt two rows back next to a wall with a PowerPoint which I assumed they were using to charge the Volt… On getting in the car I discovered that the battery was indeed flat, despite spending significant time next to a power point that could have ensured it was charged.

We did briefly consider the Volt in 2014. Apart from the fact that it still had a combustion engine in it, I didn’t like the fact it was a 4-seater. We never test drove one. But I still have the glossy brochure

Your tale of the Volt battery reinforces my view that the battery in the Nissan LEAF that we bought in 2014 had not been looked after. The car we got had probably been in storage for a long time and, I suspect, left uncharged for extended periods or the battery not kept at a healthy SoC, because people didn’t know or care.

Although it was delivered showing the full 12 bars capacity, the battery degraded fairly quickly, losing the first bar (out of 12) after only 15 months and 11,000km, and bar #4 (the warranty trigger) after 5 years 8 months and 59,000km - so just missing out on warranty replacement (5 years).

We tried and failed to pressure Nissan into a warranty replacement, but instead they offered us a replacement at a “concessional” price of $10k plus labour. We ummed and aaahed but eventually had the swap done - much cheaper than a new car.

And we are glad we did. We got a brand new battery that we could look after properly. It is now 3 years since the new battery was put in, we have done 34,000 km on it, and it is still showing 12 bars. The original battery had already lost its 2nd bar by then and was well on the way to losing its 3rd. Pretty strong evidence, I think, of my hypothesis.

Anyway, the second battery should be good for the remaining life of the car. Our LEAF turns 10 this year.

 

[meloccom]

We did briefly consider the Volt in 2014. Apart from the fact that it still had a combustion engine in it, I didn’t like the fact it was a 4-seater. We never test drove one. But I still have the glossy brochure

Your tale of the Volt battery reinforces my view that the battery in the Nissan LEAF that we bought in 2014 had not been looked after. The car we got had probably been in storage for a long time and, I suspect, left uncharged for extended periods or the battery not kept at a healthy SoC, because people didn’t know or care.

Although it was delivered showing the full 12 bars capacity, the battery degraded fairly quickly, losing the first bar (out of 12) after only 15 months and 11,000km, and bar #4 (the warranty trigger) after 5 years 8 months and 59,000km - so just missing out on warranty replacement (5 years).

We tried and failed to pressure Nissan into a warranty replacement, but instead they offered us a replacement at a “concessional” price of $10k plus labour. We ummed and aaahed but eventually had the swap done - much cheaper than a new car.

And we are glad we did. We got a brand new battery that we could look after properly. It is now 3 years since the new battery was put in, we have done 34,000 km on it, and it is still showing 12 bars. The original battery had already lost its 2nd bar by then and was well on the way to losing its 3rd. Pretty strong evidence, I think, of my hypothesis.

Anyway, the second battery should be good for the remaining life of the car. Our LEAF turns 10 this year.

If I recall correctly, I think there was a second generation 24KWh battery nicknamed the Cheetah that had better thermal resistance to degredation. This may have helped with the longevity of the second battery.

 

[aegidius]

Look what I found when driving past the local Toyota dealer.

My half baked summary:

- Looks like a Toyota, thats fine, its not horrib,e

Way too many buttons and silly gewgaws. They're firmly stuck in the past, and have learned nothing. They're cooked.

 

[Max Spaghetti]

I quite like it. It seems to lose out to the Tesla Model Y in many specifications though, and the price doesn't seem to reflect that - making it not look particularly good value in comparison.

Subaru have kicked goals with their Forester over the years, and this has some Subaru in it, but I think it's mostly Toyota - so it may have a lot of RAV4 in it. (Interesting that Subaru only sell the AWD version, in keeping with their AWD is better philosophy - but Toyota offer a cheaper 2WD version).

I would also be wary of the fact that this is their first foray into BEV, and despite their advantage with years of HEV experience, I would want to know a bit more about it.

 

[kmsyd777]

Toyota sales have declined in China and Japan! https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/toyota-global-sales-fall-7-slump-china-daihatsu-scandal?adobe_mc=MCMID=67032598841120161903901824966128082049|MCORGID=138FFF2554E6E7220A4C98C6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1711742462&CSAuthResp=1::1584271:20608:24:success:C002D57BF61439AB9D0F57D6D25AD3E2

 

[Riasta]

Having spent some time with bZ4X in US & Aus, I can say it seems to be a half hearted attempt and unfortunately an undercooked product.
It's clear that a lot of platform constraints/compromises were made.
FYI the car itself is quite long, it's actually 9cm longer than the Rav4. However, interior room is cramped - especially the high floor height.
There is no frunk. The tech is lacklustre, the range woeful.
I really do hope Toyota can summon the focus required to build a dedicated EV. Dont underestimate Toyota - the Prius proved when focused they can do great things.

 

[Vostok]

The main selling point in the Toyota Bz4X TV advertisement is… it’s a Toyota

They aren’t selling its range, or tech features, or interior space, or performance, or appointments, or competitive price, or any of its capabilities. Apparently people should buy it for one reason alone: it’s a Toyota. Just because.

Seriously? Is that the best they can do?

 

[dronus]

The main selling point in the Toyota Bz4X TV advertisement is… it’s a Toyota

They aren’t selling its range, or tech features, or interior space, or performance, or appointments, or competitive price, or any of its capabilities. Apparently people should buy it for one reason alone: it’s a Toyota. Just because.

Seriously? Is that the best they can do?

Ha I saw that too. If you buy it on that premise it just highlights how vulnerable that person is to brand advertising and ignorance.

 

[meloccom]

If it was your job as marketer to sell a very average car like the BZ4X I can’t think of a better ad campaign. There are a lot of repeat Toyota buyers and a number of them are bleeding off onto Tesla and other EV brands.
Unfortunately the BZ4X might be bad enough that it breaks their brand loyalty going forward, particularly if they cross shop it against other more competitive EVs, or worse still buy one and then get the opportunity to drive something like a Tesla.

 

[kmsyd777]

If it was your job as marketer to sell a very average car like the BZ4X I can’t think of a better ad campaign. There are a lot of repeat Toyota buyers and a number of them are bleeding off onto Tesla and other EV brands.
Unfortunately the BZ4X might be bad enough that it breaks their brand loyalty going forward, particularly if they cross shop it against other more competitive EVs, or worse still buy one and then get the opportunity to drive something like a Tesla.

I have a bunch of people in my family / friends who can't look past a Toyota - money is not an issue for them, they even test drive a merc E / BMW 5 and can easily afford one, but always settle on a Toyota. I don't know why????

 

[Vostok]

I’m a bit torn by this because ultimately we need all manufacturers to be “all in” on BEVs and for them to succeed in the mission.

Nothing would be more effective in changing Toyota’s trash-talking record on BEVs than them selling a very successful BEV.

The flipside is the Bz4X doesn’t sell well and the naysayers inside Toyota say “Told you so. BEVs are a fad. Let’s double down on the Mirai and mild hybrids” without acknowledging that if the Bz4X doesn’t sell well, it’s not because it’s a BEV, but because it’s not a very good one. It would have been a good BEV 8 years ago.

If the Bz4X doesn’t sell well, Toyota’s response should be “well we really need to change our attitude toward BEVs and make them our central mission, not a side-project we do under protest” and deploy its vast resources to designing a much better product next time.

That, else face the slow death of a thousand cuts.

All IMHO.

 

[dronus]

I dunno, I’ve watched this 2024 hybrid RAV4 video twice now.

 

[Max Spaghetti]

I have a bunch of people in my family / friends who can't look past a Toyota - money is not an issue for them, they even test drive a merc E / BMW 5 and can easily afford one, but always settle on a Toyota. I don't know why????

Well given that you are basically describing me, perhaps I can give you my insight.

Going back a few decades, Toyota were developing a reputation of reliability and sensibly priced cars that did not have high performance, were not particularly attractive but not ugly either, but they did that job that a lot of people buy a car for: to get them reliably from A to B at a reasonable price, not intended as a "look at me" trophy. Toyota just "fit the bill" for a lot of people. So did Nissan and Mazda to some extent, but Toyota always seemed to win the reliability surveys. After some years of this, Toyotas also started to generate good resale value, which made the new-car purchase even more attractive. They are still among the best resale value of any brand on the market. A fews ago I could have sold my 10yo Toyota with 250K on the clock for 50% of what I paid for it, which really amazed me.

When you read reviews of new Toyota models, they never seem to sound particularly great, and the reviewers don't rate them particularly highly. Yet they still go on to outsell most other brands. Why? The reviewers are not looking at the same things as most car buyers do.

So if the Toyota Busy Forks doesn't do well in the reviews, doesn't look great, has average performance, and it comes across as a generally boring vehicle, then guess what? They always have. Doesn't mean it won't do its job well and won't sell well. Time will tell.

 

[johnchidgey]

There are a lot of repeat Toyota buyers and a number of them are bleeding off onto Tesla and other EV brands.

Well I'll admit that 10 years ago that was me. I grew up watching Fords, Holdens and the cheap Hyundai and Kia's have countless mechanical issues, electrical problems, and were just unreliable vehicles. Looking back I was being a bit harsh, but similar to Max Spaghetti above, the pitch from Toyota was that they just made really, really reliable cars. Not amazing, but solid. So I bought into the Toyota mythology for years, owning a Tarago, a Prius-V, a Fortuner, but it all changed for me when I started seriously looking at other brands.

I discovered that Honda cars handled much nicer. To me at least, they felt nimble and balanced and that little bit nicer than the Toyotas I'd driven and I loved my Honda Jazz. I was eyeing off the Nissan Leaf for ages, but when the Model 3 was announced, I started counting the years for it to come to Australia and I've had one now for getting close to 3 years. It's the best car I've ever driven or owned.

I would never consider a Toyota again just based on its mythology (or any other brand-myth for that matter) but then I'm also 47 so if I haven't figured that out yet, I'd probably be in trouble.

 

[Nevyn72]

I dunno, I’ve watched this 2024 hybrid RAV4 video twice now.

Is that like those magazines you buy for the 'articles'?

The thing about Sarah is HE does a range of good videos, not just reviews...

 

[kmsyd777]

I dunno, I’ve watched this 2024 hybrid RAV4 video twice now.

They must love her over at Toyota!

 

[Nevyn72]

They must love her over at Toyota!

He is a bit of a Toyota fanboy, has a few Toyota project cars...

 

[Vostok]

When you read reviews of new Toyota models, they never seem to sound particularly great, and the reviewers don't rate them particularly highly. Yet they still go on to outsell most other brands. Why? The reviewers are not looking at the same things as most car buyers do.

That may be the case, but I think people who are contemplating the jump from ICE to BEV are making a very specific decision. And they will compare things that they would not compare if they were simply buying another ICE.

Range in particular is king in Australia, and the relatively poor range of the Bz4X compared to the Model Y will stand out like a sore thumb for potential buyers. And then they will start to look at things like interior space, performance, appointments, storage, charging options, servicing requirements etc and their brand loyalty to Toyota might start to get severely tested.

That’s the risk Toyota faces. The Toyota brand might be the trigger to get someone in the door to consider their first ever BEV, but once that happens, a whole new non-Toyota world might open up for that buyer, which could end up with Toyota losing the sale.

I hope that Toyota sells lots of Bz4Xs, then they might finally change their annoyingly dismissive trash-talking tune on BEVs.

But for a company of Toyota’s size, advertising spend, sales force, and brand influence, their sales aspirations for this car are depressingly unambitious - a mere 1500 units in the first year. Doesn’t exactly sound like they are trying hard, does it? Tesla sells that many Model Ys every 19 days.