[UK] Hands free (Level 2) driving has arrived

[WannabeOwner]

If I was a Mach-e owner I’d be chuffed right now

You'd have to buy a new one to get the feature (unless/until they roll it out to existing fleet)

I can never keep just the right amount of pressure and keep on getting warnings.

FWIW I have one hand on wheel, at the 4 O-Clock position, and the weight of my (one hand/arm) provides the rotational toque to keep the sensor happy. If I use two hands then I tend not to have enough rotational torque.

I also get the steering wheel nag far too frequently and it’s very irritating.

I was somewhat cavalier when I first got AP (2015). Back then it allowed long periods of hand-free (particularly on highway / no junctions / no sharp bends). So people started doing "other things" ... texting or watching a movie etc. And a number were killed, when AP got it wrong, which made the headlines of course.

Since then I've taken a much more stringent view that AP might do something daft & unexpected at any moment. The chance is very low (maybe only once in several car ownerships) but the potential consequence is dire.

I think there is significant risk of systems that "can do most of the driving" causing complacency in the driver. Back then there was no cockpit camera / driver monitoring ... but once the nag-interval on AP were repeatedly shortened (either Tesla avoiding the bad PR, or being told to) people started stuffing oranges in the steering wheel, to provide rotational torque, so they could continue driving hands-free. Heck - devices were available for sale that would do the job of an orange ... so I'm sceptical whether driver-monitoring will be the solution (if that turns out to get it wrong it will either annoy the user (as sensor for hand-on-wheel does now), or allow the user to deliberately bypass the system ... causing "this is why we can't have nice things" outcome

I'm with @GeorgeSymonds, even if the system did allow me to drive hands free I would still have a hand on the wheel. The split second of moving hands from lap-to-wheel (including the time to realise that was necessary, assuming that on that occasion the car was not, also, screaming at me) could well make all the difference.

 

[Undecided_2]

I’d say it’s a significant benefit. I find having to keep my hands on the wheel completely tiresome. I can never keep just the right amount of pressure and keep on getting warnings.

I agree. I don’t bother with EAP as I have to keep my hands on the wheel; so little benefit on long motorway drives.

Ford making it a low monthly subscription is an awesome idea. Pay for it when you want it and no shelling out £6k+ for a pipe dream.

 

[browellm]

I'm with @GeorgeSymonds, even if the system did allow me to drive hands free I would still have a hand on the wheel.

Wait, we're pivoting to "didn't want that hands-free driving anyway" now? This forum is sensational entertainment

 

[Undecided_2]

Wait, we're pivoting to "didn't want that hands-free driving anyway" now? This forum is sensational entertainment

I want hands free as I paid Tesla ££££ but still waiting.

 

[Mrklaw]

I’ve always found the steering wheel starting to pull in a different direction to what I expected was the first sign it was getting things wrong, and having your hand in the wheel meant you’re ready to intervene saving what might be a fraction of a second, but they all add up. I’d therefore not be a good passenger with anyone who felt hands off was a good idea. We’re all different in where we draw the line and what we find acceptable, but I look at it as how best to deal with it when it gets it wrong, because it will, and it’s L2, over the comfort of when it’s getting it right.

consdiering you have to be looking ahead anyway and be ready to take over, I’d naturally probably have at least one hand on the wheel otherwise I wouldn’t feel prepared. So I’d be fine for a hybrid - some kind of capacitive sensor in the wheel to detect me holding it but not requiring torque being applied. With backup of a camera if necessary.

 

[MrBadger]

Reminder of how BlueCruise works

I had watched this a couple of weeks back in its entirety. At the time I thought it was a very finessed system compared with Teslas offering.

For anyone interested it’s worth a look in it’s entirety. I don’t know who the guy is but he certainly knows his stuff across multiple cars and manufacturers as a baseline comparison.

In light of the regulatory approval of this system in UK and comments on here, I just watched the first 10 minutes again to remind myself of the history of BlueCruise 1.2. It also highlights how some manufacturers are not unsurprisingly cautious to how they release updates with OTA updates rolling out to earlier models over a longer period of time. It also highlights just how well some manufacturers have paid attention to the interaction between driver and vehicle, especially driver feedback. Iirc Tesla we’re imho quite rightly deducted points for lack of driver feedback in some UK tests by reputable organisations a couple of years back.

Imho if we do not see an equivalent or better response to this by Tesla in the next 3 months it will just highlight to lack of focus that Tesla have outside their home region.

As a complete aside, I’ve never been a fan of the Mach-e, but I must admit it looks rather nice in ‘papaya’ orange.

 

[Frankb70]

BlueCruise hands free driving has been approved for use in the UK. It looks like legislation is no longer a barrier as some others will make you believe.

Ford BlueCruise expands to the UK

Ford has launched its BlueCruise hands-free driving technology in the United Kingdom (UK). The driver-assistance technology has received full approval from the Department of Transport and can be used on 3,700km (2,300 miles) of pre-mapped […]

driveteslacanada.ca

Perhaps Tesla will pull their finger out…

I would very much hope so but cant see it happening. Tesla are still trying to sort out Vision parking assist which its recent release is an improvement on nothing but cannot be relied upon, summons, self park and special summons is just a future dream. If the vision software cannot accurately 100% detect distances then no chance without vehicle, property and people damage.
Looking at the Ford Blue Cruse self driving, it has 5 radar units and cameras, Tesla saved a few quid, did away with the radar, then saved a few extra quid removing USS and now its is paying the price and loosing the long held leading technology.
Fords Blue Cruse self driving comes at a monthly cost of £17.99 per month but if you only take Teslas EAP at £3400, that would give you 15.7 years subscription, add that some of the functions have been made no available, the monthly fee is more than worth the fee.

Sadly too many balls being juggled, Space X, Twitter and Tesla, it would appear the ball has been dropped on the latter and price discount is taking preference to maintain market sale share against leading edge technology which the Tesla brand stands for.

 

[Zilla91]

I’ve always found the steering wheel starting to pull in a different direction to what I expected was the first sign it was getting things wrong, and having your hand in the wheel meant you’re ready to intervene saving what might be a fraction of a second, but they all add up. I’d therefore not be a good passenger with anyone who felt hands off was a good idea. We’re all different in where we draw the line and what we find acceptable, but I look at it as how best to deal with it when it gets it wrong, because it will, and it’s L2, over the comfort of when it’s getting it right.

There's a difference between resting your hands on the wheel, ready to intervene and what we have where we have wiggle the wheel every few minutes.

This hands free system gives you the choice to completely take your hands off or to just rest your hands on the wheel.

On a long motorway journey the ability to take my hands off the wheel means I can take a second to grab my coffee to have a sip or swap between my glasses and sunglasses

 

[Frankb70]

consdiering you have to be looking ahead anyway and be ready to take over, I’d naturally probably have at least one hand on the wheel otherwise I wouldn’t feel prepared. So I’d be fine for a hybrid - some kind of capacitive sensor in the wheel to detect me holding it but not requiring torque being applied. With backup of a camera if necessary.

I thought the cabin camera was going to replace the pressure on the steering by monitoring the drivers eyes, that said good idea to keep both hands on the wheel, few incidents recently where the steering wheels falls off Y models.

 

[KennethS]

I thought the cabin camera was going to replace the pressure on the steering by monitoring the drivers eyes, that said good idea to keep both hands on the wheel, few incidents recently where the steering wheels falls off Y models.

I believe the steering wheel incidents were on US-built cars, very few (2?) and were caused by the bolt attaching the wheel being missing (!). This of course should NEVER happen and is inexcusable. If the cause was as reported I suggest giving a strong tug on the wheel to confirm it is properly bolted. Obviously whilst stationary and not when driving. I really don't think we need to worry about it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

we're pivoting to "didn't want that hands-free driving anyway" now?

When I first got AP (2015) I was doing 35K miles a year. I enjoyed driving and thought nothing of driving 4 hours to a business meeting ... and then 4 hours home again. But overnight I gained AP, and used it on all my motorway miles. The difference to my "arrival state" was very noticeable and significant - and easy for me to compare before/after as most of my long journeys were same before/after and same time of day too (including some from 21:30 - 11:30 where frequently tiredness caused me to have to work to stay awake at the wheel before AP but that never happening, on that journey, after AP)

So for me AP is about a) reduction on driver workload and wear & tear and b) having 2 sets of lookouts. I don't care if AP spots the problem, or me., but the both of us are better than me (increasingly so as AP gains more abilities). But ... it isn't infallible.

I use ChatGPT a lot in my programming work. It is astounding. And once in every dozen that questions I pose it is 100% wrong ...

So, for me, even if I could take my hands off the wheel I wouldn't.

For me FSDb just means more capability than current AP ... which will mean more scenarios where AP will react to something that I hadn't yet reacted to. It would be nice to be able to say "Go and pick up my elderly relative", but I think that is a long way off, whereas "more abilities" is sooner.

On a long motorway journey the ability to take my hands off the wheel means I can take a second to grab my coffee to have a sip or swap between my glasses and sunglasses

I happily do that with AP - I just choose my moment - not whilst AP is taking a motorway exit on a sharp bend

 

[Frankb70]

I believe the steering wheel incidents were on US-built cars, very few (2?) and were caused by the bolt attaching the wheel being missing (!). This of course should NEVER happen and is inexcusable. If the cause was as reported I suggest giving a strong tug on the wheel to confirm it is properly bolted. Obviously whilst stationary and not when driving. I really don't think we need to worry about it.

Kenneth, I believe a few instances were in the UK.

 

[Frankb70]

I want hands free as I paid Tesla ££££ but still waiting.

I also want hands free, park assist, park, summons and special summons all, paid for both EAP and FSD but still waiting, I believe future months will be very interesting the competitiveness that Tesla had has gone and other manufacturers gaining and have already passed Tesla. It appears that Teslas strategy has moved now stripping equipment slashing costs to try and maintain market shares or force other out of the EV market, but lets remember Tesla owners were prepared to pay for the product, which incidentally has rarely been delivered. The last loyalty aspect to Tesla was their EV charging stations now that too has gone with anybody able to use Teslas charging network to the determent to Tesla owners.

Customers would appear to have alternative choices now with manufacturers offering similar features, so lets see if Tesla step up to the mark and makes good on their promises or they keep dropping the price until Tesla vehicles are at the bottom of the pile and offer buy one get one free.

 

[KennethS]

Kenneth, I believe a few instances were in the UK.

I was genuinely unaware of this, and did try to search the internet. In that case I am astounded that Tesla has not done a recall on all vehicles to check that all steering wheel bolts are installed and properly torqued. Surprised it hasn't been mandated since even a single failure of this nature can have devastating consequences and it is wholly avoidable. I am an unashamed satisfied customer of Tesla but find this one unjustifiable.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Wait, we're pivoting to "didn't want that hands-free driving anyway" now? This forum is sensational entertainment

I’ve never wanted L2 hands free - I’ve always wanted L3 or above. I’d trade the US L2 can drive most places for a L3 can drive on motorways only as the later is actually useful.

 

[Frankb70]

I was genuinely unaware of this, and did try to search the internet. In that case I am astounded that Tesla has not done a recall on all vehicles to check that all steering wheel bolts are installed and properly torqued. Surprised it hasn't been mandated since even a single failure of this nature can have devastating consequences and it is wholly avoidable. I am an unashamed satisfied customer of Tesla but find this one unjustifiable.

KennethS, there was some another news release that there were problems with the seats and seatbelt bolts not being at the correct torque on certain models, but not had any recalls, so guess that unless contacted all is ok.

 

[MrBadger]

KennethS, there was some another news release that there were problems with the seats and seatbelt bolts not being at the correct torque on certain models, but not had any recalls, so guess that unless contacted all is ok.

Worth checking yourself in case you have something serious enough to affect safety.

It would be pretty despicable for a manufacturer not to do active recall on safety items, but you never know.

Service and diagnostic information for independent businesses and individuals involved in the professional maintenance and repair of Tesla vehicles.

service.tesla.com

 

[Dilly]

When I first got AP (2015) I was doing 35K miles a year. I enjoyed driving and thought nothing of driving 4 hours to a business meeting ... and then 4 hours home again. But overnight I gained AP, and used it on all my motorway miles. The difference to my "arrival state" was very noticeable and significant - and easy for me to compare before/after as most of my long journeys were same before/after and same time of day too (including some from 21:30 - 11:30 where frequently tiredness caused me to have to work to stay awake at the wheel before AP but that never happening, on that journey, after AP)

So for me AP is about a) reduction on driver workload and wear & tear and b) having 2 sets of lookouts. I don't care if AP spots the problem, or me., but the both of us are better than me (increasingly so as AP gains more abilities). But ... it isn't infallible.

I use ChatGPT a lot in my programming work. It is astounding. And once in every dozen that questions I pose it is 100% wrong ...

So, for me, even if I could take my hands off the wheel I wouldn't.

For me FSDb just means more capability than current AP ... which will mean more scenarios where AP will react to something that I hadn't yet reacted to. It would be nice to be able to say "Go and pick up my elderly relative", but I think that is a long way off, whereas "more abilities" is sooner.



I happily do that with AP - I just choose my moment - not whilst AP is taking a motorway exit on a sharp bend

I entirely agree. I did several long holiday journeys on AP and arrived fresh every time. I always used to need a sit down and a cup of tea before unloading.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I'm not sure why it's only the 2023 versions of these cars that allow 'hands free' driving, whether it be a change in ADAS hardware or a delay in rolling out software updates to older models.

That's how 'traditional' auto makers work. They differentiate features in years. It's likely perfectly possible in the earlier ones but they want people to upgrade.

 

[MrBadger]

That's how 'traditional' auto makers work. They differentiate features in years. It's likely perfectly possible in the earlier ones but they want people to upgrade.

The video posted earlier implies that BlueCruise 1.2 (ie hands off) will ultimately be rolled out OTA to all electric Mach-e's irrespective of Model year.