[UK] Model S/X LHD Discussion

[FastLaneJB]

Yeah I did see a few of those videos. Lots of them raved about it so good press indeed. Of course took them a good while to come out with some carbon ceremic brakes to enable 200mph.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Top Gear were invited and they posted the video below

"The question is not 'What', it's 'Why not'"

That's an OTA update for me from "Couldn't afford not to have it"

 

[DrJFoster]

The top gear one was reasonably complementary but they did make the point its still not really a drivers car. I'd suggest you have a read of the MS subsection or go and read on twitter because the cars aren't without issues either, although in fairness I imagine a 200mph Ferrari is also a little temperamental.

 

[Zilla91]

It's a bit of a pisstake that you have to spend 20k on a 120k car for some decent brakes.

 

[sam481]

I’m tempted to switch to the 21” Arachnids and go for the carbon ceramic brake kit if I’m given the option to change my spec closer to delivery.

I’ll only do so if it doesn’t impact the original base price for the car (pre-£10k increase), though worst case I’ll order after they deliver the car.

I also want to swap to a normal wheel and I hope they offer that to everyone with no penalty (those who locked in the lower base price).

I actually changed to the wheel and went to 7 seats on my X order about 6 weeks ago). Order agreement has updated with no change to the base price (£89990).

 

[FastLaneJB]

The top gear one was reasonably complementary but they did make the point its still not really a drivers car. I'd suggest you have a read of the MS subsection or go and read on twitter because the cars aren't without issues either, although in fairness I imagine a 200mph Ferrari is also a little temperamental.

Yes of course, it's a very fast GT car in my opinion. Too big and heavy to be a track weapon though doesn't mean it might not be fun to go down the straights with it.

I've always had maybe more fun on twisty roads in slower but more agile cars. However in reality I want a comfortable and spacious GT car more.

 

[Sean.]

It's a bit of a pisstake that you have to spend 20k on a 120k car for some decent brakes.

Unfortunately full ceramics are eyewateringly expensive.

Porsche now only offer them (as standard) with the top spec Turbo S version of the Taycan. On my Taycan Turbo I have surface ceramic coated disks, which I find are plenty good enough for the road.

As a Model X Plaid comparator - Lotus will sell you full carbon ceramics on the Eletre, but they are the thick end of £12K. Ouch!

 

[Zilla91]

I get they're expensive but the difference is the standard brakes on the Porsche are already very good while the ones on the Tesla, by all accounts, are completely inadequate

 

[ariharry]

Here is me hoping that they listen to Tom Ford’s comments (Top Gear) and standardise on carbon ceramics and Arachnids for the UK market.

Highly improbable but we’d benefit on B-roads as the weight and mad power of the Plaid would cook standard brakes in no time!

 

[12Pack]

Interestingly, actual objective braking results for the MS Plaid are OK - even better than a Taycan Turbo S according to Car and Driver. The issue is brake fade from repeated use from high speeds (e.g. on track 140 to 40 mph). Since the Plaid will be for commuting, I don't expect to really need CCBs. But as with the rest of the Plaid they will fall into my "why not?" category.

 

[WannabeOwner]

But as with the rest of the Plaid they will fall into my "why not?" category.

Slippery slope ... you and me both!

 

[Leytonstone]

To tempt me I'd need more noise insulation, fewer breakdowns, vanilla cruise, CarPlay same as every other mainstream vehicle on sale, a real (i.e. IR-based) rain sensor, and actual functioning headlamps rather than the pair of Argos LED camping torches I have now.

What it looks like I get for Targa 4S money is all the stalks removed and the USS in the bumpers smoothed over, right at the point the industry has realised the whole "less is more" thing was probably silly.

Am admittedly very taken with the idea of setting drive bias because I miss the squirm of the 75. AWD always gets results regardless of conditions or input but is unrewarding as a result -- it's the high end Panasonic camera of cars -- with the M3 LR loaner I had for a week last month being the very pinnacle of the industry's switch to making inert electrical appliances.

Be interesting to see leasing rates. Suspect given the 3yr depreciation of mine they will be in the troposphere.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Interestingly, actual objective braking results for the MS Plaid are OK - even better than a Taycan Turbo S according to Car and Driver. The issue is brake fade from repeated use from high speeds (e.g. on track 140 to 40 mph). Since the Plaid will be for commuting, I don't expect to really need CCBs. But as with the rest of the Plaid they will fall into my "why not?" category.

View attachment 936036

They upgraded the pads they used didn’t they recently. Not sure if I’ve read or seen anything talk about those but I feel it’s a safe assumption they should be better than before. For road driving, hopefully good enough but for track obviously not.

Maybe not as flush as some of you, I’d struggle to justify the carbons when I wouldn’t track it. Not going to be that many places in the UK you can stretch this cars legs enough to also get brake fade I suspect on public roads. I imagine it’ll handle 60 - 70mph braking just fine

 

[WannabeOwner]

Maybe not as flush as some of you, I’d struggle to justify the carbons when I wouldn’t track it

I'm not sure that once I'm in for £120K that another 20K would be hard to find ... I'd make the assumption that I'd get 50% back on sale, so its the finance cost of (another!) £10K over X years ...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it ... just ask for Forgiveness rather than Permission

But ... would I actually notice a difference in road driving? I so rarely use the brakes since I've had EV ... maybe they will perform better in that scenario - "Barely for months and then needed in anger"? Is it just brake-fade from repeat heavy braking or a significant difference in stopping? And will it only make a difference when I am trying hard (I don't drive like that any more)

If every time I stop I go "Wow" ... same as every time I'm first-at-the-lights then I'm in.

 

[12Pack]

Is it just brake-fade from repeat heavy braking or a significant difference in stopping? And will it only make a difference when I am trying hard (I don't drive like that any more)

If every time I stop I go "Wow" ... same as every time I'm first-at-the-lights then I'm in.

The CCB material and pads are really about resistance to brake fade after repeated stops in principle. However, it seems the Plaid brake upgrade also has larger rotors (up to 410mm fronts) and 6 piston calipers front, 4 rear - as opposed to 4/2 for the standard brakes. So indeed should also have better stopping power.

They upgraded the pads they used didn’t they recently. Not sure if I’ve read or seen anything talk about those but I feel it’s a safe assumption they should be better than before. For road driving, hopefully good enough but for track obviously not.

Maybe not as flush as some of you, I’d struggle to justify the carbons when I wouldn’t track it. Not going to be that many places in the UK you can stretch this cars legs enough to also get brake fade I suspect on public roads. I imagine it’ll handle 60 - 70mph braking just fine

The standard brakes should really be fine (per the spider graph I posted) - its more about repeated stops.

 

[Overworked]

I'm not sure that once I'm in for £120K that another 20K would be hard to find ... I'd make the assumption that I'd get 50% back on sale, so its the finance cost of (another!) £10K over X years ...

….

Just to assist your understanding. That final bit about finance is probably where you are misunderstanding what really happens.

Do people really have to seek finance when they can throw that much at a car? I would have thought you just write a larger cheque … or whatever young people do these days. Those wealthy enough seldom have to trouble themselves over £10k here or there

 

[Durzel]

It's a bit of a pisstake that you have to spend 20k on a 120k car for some decent brakes.

A bit? Porsche would never launch a car with such crapola brakes, even if the owner never drove to the car park of a track.

Theirs - and others - philosophy (which I agree with) is that given the speeds you might reach in such a short amount of time, you need to know you've got commensurate stopping power under your right foot.

There's also a perception element to it as well - big brakes are aesthetically pleasing and give a vibe of something really special.

I also agree on a fundamental level that you should not have to spend another £20k on a £120k+ car that does 0-60 in <2 seconds for brakes that are actually up to scratch, but that's Tesla for you - there's people on here swapping out their suspension on their Ys for ones that actually suit the vehicle, like it's no big deal.

 

[Leytonstone]

Just to assist your understanding. That final bit about finance is probably where you are misunderstanding what really happens.

Do people really have to seek finance when they can throw that much at a car? I would have thought you just write a larger cheque … or whatever young people do these days. Those wealthy enough seldom have to trouble themselves over £10k here or there

Taycan during The Cough was around £700/mo courtesy of an ungenerous depreciation curve and low interest rates (which also meant you could get a 2yr deal barely different from a 4yr one). Run through a ltd company it is presently a highly tax efficient way of driving a Porsche

 

[WannabeOwner]

Do people really have to seek finance when they can throw that much at a car?

I can afford it. Generally I choose not to - I've never owned a Ferrari, for example. Been a passenger in them, always very impressed with the engineering and experience, but the MS suits me better - supercar acceleration, cargo space for all my rash eBay purchases, and space for 5 adults. Suits me fine even on high-days+holy-days.

I have paid cash for mine. Accountant thinks I'm nuts and that I should finance them.

Then there are those that will choose to "stretch" to something they can't quite afford. e.g. Me when younger ...

Different folks, different strokes, and all that.

Porsche would never launch a car with such crapola brakes, even if the owner never drove to the car park of a track.

But Porsche would already have baked the £20K "posh brakes" into the price - and the fact it had THOSE brakes would be a marketing-draw as well (as you said "big brakes are aesthetically pleasing and give a vibe of something really special")

Are they really complete crapola? In spider graph above the bog standard brakes have same 70-0 MPH as BMW M5 (yeah, I expect inadequate for repeated use)

given the speeds you might reach in such a short amount of time, you need to know you've got commensurate stopping power under your right foot.

But its "might reach" surely? I have no intention of driving mine at 160 MPH "'coz it can" - and certainly not to then repeatedly stand on the brakes. The vast majority of owners don't need that ability, so selling it as an option seems fine to me.

I also agree on a fundamental level that you should not have to spend another £20k on a £120k+ car that does 0-60 in <2 seconds for brakes that are actually up to scratch

I disagree with that point. The brakes upgrade is needed for repeated stopping from high speed. IME that has very little to do with Launch ability. In all the launches I've done once underway I'm not then stopping ... and if I am its more likely a relaxed-slowdown and using regen.

If I was on a track that would be different

Uncle Chet (if you haven't seen it) put Ceramic Brakes on his Plaid, and didn't change the DOT brake fluid. That didn't go well, even though he wasn't pushing it (he was on a track but just doing some mucking about, not trying to set a lap record). Mine you, this was after he drove the thing under water (in case you haven't seen that either ...) so maybe the discs were rusty

 

[Zilla91]

But its "might reach" surely? I have no intention of driving mine at 160 MPH "'coz it can" - and certainly not to then repeatedly stand on the brakes.

You don't, but someone else might. For example your German alter ego who goes up and down the autobahn everyday