Update: Model X has a single charger, but only 48A capable

[andrewket]

I received a very nice, but non-committal email from tesla in response to my email about the 48A. They said that they decided to remove the dual charging features for Model X to eliminate confusion and make the buying process easier. They also mentioned they they were expanding the supercharger network.

If they decided this late then perhaps there is still room for a second charger. That would mean they could offer it as an accessory, as they do now with the S.

I have talked to people who were confused as to what dual chargers would give them, but imho that's not a good reason to not offer it to those that are not confused

 

[TexasEV]

I received a very nice, but non-committal email from tesla in response to my email about the 48A. They said that they decided to remove the dual charging features for Model X to eliminate confusion and make the buying process easier. They also mentioned they they were expanding the supercharger network.

What a lame excuse. It's their job to explain how charging works, and if people were confused about dual charging (as they claim they were on Model S) then they need to come up with a better way to educate potential customers about it. That's what the stores and web site are for. The answer also doesn't explain why they downgraded the SINGLE charger from 72A to 48A.

As for mentioning supercharging in the reply, it sounds like they're making the mistake of believing their own marketing hype. Either that of they need to get out more, specifically far away from California.

 

[AlMc]

I just got a response (a phone call) to my email to NASales about my dissapointment with the non folding seats and 48 amp charger. Same as others: 'They have received a number of concerns and TM has a history of listening to their customers and taking action.'

 

[stopcrazypp]

What a lame excuse. It's their job to explain how charging works, and if people were confused about dual charging (as they claim they were on Model S) then they need to come up with a better way to educate potential customers about it. That's what the stores and web site are for. The answer also doesn't explain why they downgraded the SINGLE charger from 72A to 48A.

As for mentioning supercharging in the reply, it sounds like they're making the mistake of believing their own marketing hype. Either that of they need to get out more, specifically far away from California.

Seems like a standard PR response to me. Apple uses a similar explanation for cutting down on certain configurations. If the amount of money they spend promoting the higher power charger is greater than the profit they get from selling them, I can see why they cut it out of the line. As I pointed out before, they are close to doing that with the Model S by making it a store installed option.

 

[dsm363]

If the argument is simply the assembly line then what they are doing is fine. The system for the Model S where the second charger is installed at the service center works fine. Tesla really does need to fix this.

 

[bonnie]

Re potential customer confusion over 'dual chargers'. Quit calling it that! Options to include (pick one) *40amp charging rate OR *80amp charging rate.

Problem solved.

 

[ohmman]

Re potential customer confusion over 'dual chargers'. Quit calling it that! Options to include (pick one) *40amp charging rate OR *80amp charging rate.

Problem solved.

I like the idea. That said, I don't believe for a minute that anyone was confused. I also don't believe that it made purchasing the car any more difficult. There's another reason behind all of this, and I do hope we find out what it is.

 

[goneskiian]

What a lame excuse. It's their job to explain how charging works, and if people were confused about dual charging (as they claim they were on Model S) then they need to come up with a better way to educate potential customers about it. That's what the stores and web site are for. The answer also doesn't explain why they downgraded the SINGLE charger from 72A to 48A.

As for mentioning supercharging in the reply, it sounds like they're making the mistake of believing their own marketing hype. Either that of they need to get out more, specifically far away from California.

+1 Exactly.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I like the idea. That said, I don't believe for a minute that anyone was confused. I also don't believe that it made purchasing the car any more difficult. There's another reason behind all of this, and I do hope we find out what it is.

I agree confusion being the reason doesn't make much sense.

The existence of a 72A single charger would explain dropping the dual charger option, though. If they then have problems with the charger forcing them to limit charging to 48A, that could explain everything.

 

[yobigd20]

So, low and behold, I just got a phone call from a Tesla "Inside Sales Person" who thanked me for my email and encouraged owners and reservation holders to feel free to email them with these types of suggestions and feedback. He confirmed that the MX will be shipping with a 48A charger but admitted that they were getting a significant amount of feedback and was going to escalate our suggestions to his superiors and the production folks in the hopes that they might reconsider and at least offer the 72A charger as an option. He also indicated that they have some folks who monitor the forums. So by all means, if the 72A charger is important to you, send your emails to Tesla and make your feelings known.

What email address are you sending to? I'll send them an email to with my scenario in why I wouldn't be able to purchase an MX without having a higher power charger.

 

[yobigd20]

People not ordering the dual chargers like you said is the more likely reason. Not danger of charging at 80A. There is zero evidence this was done for safety reasons after 6+ years of people changing at 70A+ between Roadster and Model S.

The only reason it's less common is because they moved it out of the design page and put it on the tesla store. If they had kept it on the design page I bet you the order rate would be much much higher. It's like they are trying to steer people away from it for some reason.

 

[andrewket]

The only reason it's less common is because they moved it out of the design page and put it on the tesla store. If they had kept it on the design page I bet you the order rate would be much much higher. It's like they are trying to steer people away from it for some reason.

Reduce confusion at purchase. I realize most of the people here are not confused by 40, 80, and supercharging, but apparently many were. While it was a factory option many were buying the 2nd charger because they thought it was needed, only to find out later they didn't need it and that they had spent money needlessly. There were others who bought it but not the HPWC, and therefore couldn't use it (this is why Tesla bundled the second charger and HPWC for a short period of time last year.) I spoke to someone who works at a service location who told me they get a question related to this combination of issues a few times a week. I was surprised.

The easiest simplification is to make 80 (or 72) charging standard, which is what I think the plan was for the X. Why it changed, who knows.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Reduce confusion at purchase. I realize most of the people here are not confused by 40, 80, and supercharging, but apparently many were. While it was a factory option many were buying the 2nd charger because they thought it was needed, only to find out later they didn't need it and that they had spent money needlessly. There were others who bought it but not the HPWC, and therefore couldn't use it (this is why Tesla bundled the second charger and HPWC for a short period of time last year.) I spoke to someone who works at a service location who told me they get a question related to this combination of issues a few times a week. I was surprised.

Is it really the case that you can't use the 80A charging without the HPWC? Don't you have plenty of other brands of EVSE? Here in Europe, at least, 22 kW charging is available many places; at shopping malls, parking garages, gas stations, restaurants, etc, and I don't think they've even started selling the HPWC yet.

 

[AlMc]

What email address are you sending to? I'll send them an email to with my scenario in why I wouldn't be able to purchase an MX without having a higher power charger.

[email protected]

 

[Chickenlittle]

Maybe they'll get really crazy and offer dual chargers on the Model S order page again.

Actually it's available as add on via tesla store and at lower price installed than when it was an option

would also like to provide another reason for higher capacity charger. Many model S owners will get model X as well. With quicker charging would not need to install another HPWC

- - - Updated - - -

My house is still standing. Where did you get this? This was in response to some one claiming 80 amp draw was a fire hazard.

 

[arg]

If they had kept it on the design page I bet you the order rate would be much much higher. It's like they are trying to steer people away from it for some reason.

I asked the head of Tesla UK about this a couple of months ago (before Model X charger issues arose), in the context of a discussion about Destination charging - I asked whether I should still be trying to persuade destinations to install 22kW charging, or if the removal from design studio meant that Tesla were looking to phase out dual chargers in due course. His reply was that there was no intent to get rid of dual chargers, they had simply been removed from design studio since too many people were ordering 2nd chargers that they didn't need (of course, in the UK context 2nd chargers are much less useful than in some other areas, so this may be a local view).

Just one information point, and as we all know Tesla doesn't always speak with one voice, but does indicate that the 'confusion' explanation pre-dates the X issue.

 

[dsm363]

Is it really the case that you can't use the 80A charging without the HPWC? Don't you have plenty of other brands of EVSE? Here in Europe, at least, 22 kW charging is available many places; at shopping malls, parking garages, gas stations, restaurants, etc, and I don't think they've even started selling the HPWC yet.

That's effectively the case. There are some ClipperCreek 80A charging stations in Canada and Washington State but rare other places. Telsa has their destination charging program though.

 

[dhanson865]

Is it really the case that you can't use the 80A charging without the HPWC? Don't you have plenty of other brands of EVSE? Here in Europe, at least, 22 kW charging is available many places; at shopping malls, parking garages, gas stations, restaurants, etc, and I don't think they've even started selling the HPWC yet.

There are other brands of EVSEs I could mount in my garage at home but all of them are more expensive than the Tesla HPWC.

Because they are more expensive no one puts them out in public so the best I see in public locations is 30A @ 208V (6.x KW)

an example of pricing

Tesla HPWC 80A for $750

Siemens VersiCharge 70A $1000

JuiceBox 40A $500

Leviton EVB40-PST 40A $800

Clipper Creek 48A for $900
Clipper Creek 80A for $2200


as you can see there is no practical alternative price wise to just buying a HPWC if you want more than 30A charging here. The only advantage that makes the Siemens Versicharge attractive is someone with a non Tesla can easily charge on it. If you have a dual EV household with a non Tesla EV you might buy a different EVSE.

You definitely won't see high powered L2s in the wild in my part of the world and other than the occasional HPWC I don't know of any EVSE >30A within hundreds of miles of me.

I wonder how expensive your 22KW EVSEs are over there vs the price of a HPWC over there?

 

[Lloyd]

Eaton 70 amp for $2500

 

[Yggdrasill]

I wonder how expensive your 22KW EVSEs are over there vs the price of a HPWC over there?

The 22 kW EVSEs vary in price, but most are 5,000-10,000 NOK, or 600-1,200 USD. The cheaper ones being more improvised and the more expensive ones being quite polished. You can also get a 22 kW portable EVSE for something like 800 USD, allowing you to plug into any standard red 22 kW three phase plug. These are often used for cooled containers, trash compactors, and all sorts of machinery. (Some will have seen Bjørn Nyland use a portable 22 kW EVSE.)

As for what the HPWC costs - to varying degrees between 2013 and now, it's been advertized on the Tesla website, but it's simply never materialized. Now that I check the site, it's supposed to become available spring 2016.