Updated autopilot sucks!

[tescroft]

No, it's more an increased reaction time issue. If your hands are not on the wheel, that means your reaction time to an AP problem would be that much slower. If you take the classic scenario where you are following a car on AP and it suddenly swerves to avoid a stationary object at the last second, hands on you may just react in time, hands off and you are almost certainly going to crash.

While it is true that reaction time increases driving hands-off, this wasn’t the reason for the accident in either the white truck crash nor the lane divider crash nor the Uber crash. The reason was people were not attentive and did not react at all (not even braking).

The false-faced game that Tesla plays is that they‘re, intentional or not, subversively promoting hands free driving in the media, e.g. Elon Musk himself driving hands-free in a Model 3 in a CBS show, see minute 1:24

Tesla also enjoyed the positive media feedbacks and excitment of all the journalists showing off hands-free driving with 7.0 of autopilot, which made a long lasting impression about the capabilities of Autopilot at potential customers.

 

[rainforest]

I'm not updating if the software is this bad.

 

[Az_Rael]

Updated both our AP 1 P85D and my AP 2.5 Model 3 last night. I haven't gotten a report from my husband yet on the AP1 car, but my "standard" steering wheel holding method did not trigger any nags on my drive in this morning.

So it looks like I escaped any tweaking of my torque sensor, thankfully.

 

[Joe F]

I would actually say that 21.9 is more dangerous than not using AP. I actually turned it off this weekend.

My 5ft 3" wife could not put enough pressure on the steering wheel to stop the nanny alerts. It caused her to pull off the side of the road and reset the car so she could reuse the AP. So I tried - 6ft and 210lbs and my normal way of driving had the same issues. Finally the alerts were so annoying - I turned it off.

I don't understand what you mean by not being able to put enough pressure on the steering wheel.

Can you be a little more specific by what you mean by pressure?

Do you mean pushing the wheel away from you, or pulling it towards you? Or, do you mean squeezing the wheel and not being able to squeeze it hard enough? To what, and how, are you stating pressure needs to be applied?

I'm really trying to understand the problem, but truly don't understand what you mean by simply saying "pressure" without more info.

Thanks!

 

[Raincloud]

Drove 500 miles yesterday and timed the 'nag' prompts to be every 40 seconds. It is super annoying and defeats the purpose of using it in the first place. Even with both hands on the steering, it nags you at times. Wish I had know this before upgrading.

 

[Az_Rael]

Hubby reported in this morning with 21.9. He didn't notice additional nags on his AP 1 car, however he did have a semi being shown on the line in the display when it wasn't, causing the car to brake while he was passing it. So that's fun.

OTA updates are like a box of chocolates.

 

[snoopycr]

Imagine if every car company nag their customers every 40 sec to make sure your hands are on the steering wheel. People would be extremely upset.

I'm not sure why Tesla has to nanny their drivers. Just say Don't hold the steering wheel, drive at your own risk and expect to die! That's it.

Ap is optional. Your don't like it don't buy that feature or don't use it.

Cars can go up to 155mph, definitely no legal on US streets. It's understood you go that fast you can and will die if you lose control.

End of story. So if enough Tesla drivers died from speeding, are they going to limit the speedomter after clients bought their cars.

This nagging is so stupid

 

[jsmay311]

Here's what Elon has to say on the matter....

View attachment 308871

Elon is either being disingenuous or he doesn't understand the root of the problem, which is the lack of an effective way to detect hands on the wheel, not the frequency of the nags when it thinks your hands aren't on the wheel.

 

[Saghost]

Imagine if every car company nag their customers every 40 sec to make sure your hands are on the steering wheel. People would be extremely upset.

I'm not sure why Tesla has to nanny their drivers. Just say Don't hold the steering wheel, drive at your own risk and expect to die! That's it.

Ap is optional. Your don't like it don't buy that feature or don't use it.

Cars can go up to 155mph, definitely no legal on US streets. It's understood you go that fast you can and will die if you lose control.

End of story. So if enough Tesla drivers died from speeding, are they going to limit the speedomter after clients bought their cars.

This nagging is so stupid

Actually, all the other lane keeping systems I've seen from other automakers will prompt at fifteen second intervals, except for Cadillac Supercruise of course - it watches your eyes and prompts if it doesn't see you looking at the road for fifteen second instead.

No one has been nearly as lenient as Tesla was prior to this update AFAIK.

 

[mkspeedr]

I don't understand what you mean by not being able to put enough pressure on the steering wheel.

Can you be a little more specific by what you mean by pressure?

Do you mean pushing the wheel away from you, or pulling it towards you? Or, do you mean squeezing the wheel and not being able to squeeze it hard enough? To what, and how, are you stating pressure needs to be applied?

I'm really trying to understand the problem, but truly don't understand what you mean by simply saying "pressure" without more info.

Thanks!

When both my wife and I drive we have our hands on the steering wheel (at least when I am in the car with her). She drives with two hands on the wheel. I drive with one hand on the wheel. She holds the wheel so light AP does not think she has he hands on the wheel. I hold the wheel similar with one hand. AP only "sees" our hands when we apply pressure/resistance to the wheel. We are almost pushing against AP to get AP to see/feel our hands.

Most importantly my wife and I did not instantly change our driving style over the last 3 years and 3 Tesla vehicles. The update definitely impacted our new X.

 

[r0xx0r]

Imagine if every car company nag their customers every 40 sec to make sure your hands are on the steering wheel. People would be extremely upset.

I'm not sure why Tesla has to nanny their drivers. Just say Don't hold the steering wheel, drive at your own risk and expect to die! That's it.

Ap is optional. Your don't like it don't buy that feature or don't use it.

Cars can go up to 155mph, definitely no legal on US streets. It's understood you go that fast you can and will die if you lose control.

End of story. So if enough Tesla drivers died from speeding, are they going to limit the speedomter after clients bought their cars.

This nagging is so stupid

Well, even people understand the limitation and agree to op-in the beta feature. They or their families still put a lawsuit on Tesla after they died. Also, the regulator doesn't like a company lets people select the "willing-to-die" option. I would say the more safety feature on the car, the less fun you will have.

Many other manufacturers have the electronic speed limiter on their cars. Try the Ford Mustang V8, when it reaches top limit speed, your pedal is still half of its way. Pushing more does nothing. That why these cars have to illegally unlock their ECU for drag races.

 

[onlinespending]

I'm not sure why Tesla has to nanny their drivers. Just say Don't hold the steering wheel, drive at your own risk and expect to die! That's it.

But you also risk the lives of others on the road. There in lies the problem. This isn't like wearing a seat belt or not, which should be up to the driver as it does not impact anyone but him or herself.

 

[Joe F]

AP only "sees" our hands when we apply pressure/resistance to the wheel. We are almost pushing against AP to get AP to see/feel our hands.

Thanks, but, what to you is meant by "pressure?"

Do you mean rotational turning effort of the wheel as if manually steering? Do you mean counter resistance to the steering effect AutoSteer is using which is felt when AS turns the wheel?

Sorry for questioning you further, but the reason I'm trying to get you to be exact is, there have been some on TMC who thought they needed to "push or pull" the steering wheel, IE apply "pressure" on the wheel rather than slightly resist the wheel as AS turned it. Still others have thought they needed to "squeeze" the wheel, providing "pressure" as though there was some kind of sensor in the wheel that registered them squeezing it. There isn't.

In reality, AS only senses "hands on wheel" when it "feels" a slight steering effort which is counter to its steering direction, either because you increased holding the wheel a little more tightly as AS was turning, or by lightly turning the wheel without actually turning it in an opposite direction. It really is a very slight amount of rotational pressure or effort required, certainly a lot less than your original post stated which made it sound as if it required more strength than you or your wife has. In reality, it shouldn't take more effort than holding the wheel with two fingers and trying to turn the wheel

 

[mkspeedr]

Yes, the resistance of turning right or left on the wheel. I get how AP works. Our X almost needs enough pressure against the AP control to move the car in the lane.

I think there must be some hardware difference because too many people have no impact. Our X changed significantly after the update.

 

[Joe F]

Yes, the resistance of turning right or left on the wheel. I get how AP works. Our X almost needs enough pressure against the AP control to move the car in the lane.

I think there must be some hardware difference because too many people have no impact. Our X changed significantly after the update.

Okay, got it. Thanks.

Seriously, take it in and have it checked. I know others have been told it's normal, but it's not normal. Something is wrong H/W wise. Have the service manager go for a test drive with you, and also take a demo model out to compare, and let the manager see the difference. It would be kind of hard for them to state it's normal after that.

 

[tescroft]

But you also risk the lives of others on the road. There in lies the problem. This isn't like wearing a seat belt or not, which should be up to the driver as it does not impact anyone but him or herself.

You also risk the lives of others by speeding, yet no car manufacturer prevents that on public roads. Even worse, high speed is a feature that is advertised.

You also risk the lives of others by doing phone calls while driving, yet bluetooth phone integration is a feature that is advertised and not suppressed during driving. There are studies which suggest that even with a hands free phone connection, driving is affected about the same as driving with 0,8 promille alcohol in your blood.

Again, driving hands-free is not what is risking the lives of others, but being inattentive by using your smartphone reading mail or news. THAT is what should be prevented with or without driving assistance features in a car, e.g. with a driver monitoring system similar to the one of Cadillac.

Did you ever oberserve the drivers you're overtaking while driving with Autopilot? Most of them drive older or cheaper cars with NO (zero) driving assistance functionality, but they're still texting with the phone while holding the steering wheel with the other hand. Lot of people do things with their phone especially in stop-and-go-traffic situations. It's outlandish. In this context, forcing AP drivers to hold the steering wheel is ridiculous.

 

[snoopycr]

But you also risk the lives of others on the road. There in lies the problem. This isn't like wearing a seat belt or not, which should be up to the driver as it does not impact anyone but him or herself.

Everytime someone gets in a car they risk their lives plus the public. Car companies without lane assist/ap don't have to nag their drivers that if you don't hold the wheel you will crash and die.

Idiots will still go on doing whatever they want.

I don't know why having ap/lane assist suddenly puts the fault on car companies in any accidents.

I don't know why warnings from Tesla are not enough. Now they have to limit the cars. Why have cars go over 100mph when it's not legal anywhere in the streets?

 

[Electroman]

I'm not updating if the software is this bad.

I thought I will avoid AP nag and not update at all.. But now the update window pops up frequently and is nagging for me to update.

Sheesh can't get away from nagging one way or the other.

 

[SSonnentag]

As far as I know, Tesla is the only car manufacturer that allows map interaction while driving. Hopefully that feature doesn't get switched off in the future. In my opinion, recommending the driver keep hands on the wheel at all times while driving is good enough. The constant nags even while holding the wheel are bad. Why not have a throttle sensor that constantly nags us to keep our foot on the throttle or brake whenever cruise control is activated? It seems like a fair comparison to me.

 

[tescroft]

This whole thing is not good for Tesla. They lost contact to the customers. Elon Musk really thinks this 30 sec nagging stuff is better for Tesla customers than eye surveillance.

"Eyetracking rejected for being ineffective"

Tesla is really on the wrong path with Autopilot currently. The feature is becoming useless this way.