NTSB update for Autopilot has me looking for an anti-nag device

[byeLT4]

What additional commands would you like to see implemented?

Just for it to work honestly. It's strange but 'enable steering wheel heater' turns it on, the display shows 'hi' but it barely feels like it's on. When I set it manually it gets hotter and much quicker at that. I don't see what the difference would be, but there is one on my car.
Edit: made myself laugh thinking maybe I need to say 'yoke' instead

 

[David99]

I have tested the device that connects to the scroll wheel inside the steering wheel. It's a small electronic device that sends the same signal to the car as if you would physically move the scroll wheel up and down one click. It does it in a randomized way so it won't be detected. It is configurable and you can turn it on and off as you like.

In FSD it does not entirely remove the hands on wheel nags. FSD will nag less but still ask you to tug on the wheel here and there. Maybe every 4 minutes or so. So you do have a good amount of time between the nags. The cabin camera of course remains unaffected. It will still watch you and warn you when you look away for too long. You cannot cover the camera. FSD will complain. In the end the device will just reduce the nags, but won't defeat the system and you cannot drive without paying attention using it.

Autopilot does not ask for the wheel tug. It is satisfied with the scroll wheel action, thus the device can completely eliminates the hands on wheel nags. The device doesn't interfere with the normal use of the scroll wheel. You can use them just like normal. The device has no impact on the cabin camera.

The S3XY button commander can send the same signal. They call it 'hands of wheel'. But it is the exact same thing. It sends the signal of the scroll wheel being moved up and down one click.

Everyone is responsible to operate their car safely. There is potential for it to be used in an unsafe way. Just like drinking and driving, looking at your cell phone or exceeding the speed limit. Having your hands on your lap 2 inches away from the steering wheel instead of touching it seem to be similar to having you foot on the ground instead hovering it over the brake pedal. I can grab the wheel faster with my hands on my lap than moving my foot off the accelerator and onto the brake which is the normal situation. So I don't see that as an issue.

The issue is attention. I looked it up and the most common cause for accidents is distracted driving. Cell phones are the worst offenders. It is frightening how many people I see driving looking at their cell phone. I would bet money that the actual percentage of accidents caused by people being distracted by cell phones is even higher than official statistics as most people will deny having been on their phones when they crash. In all those cases the people had their hands on the wheel. I honestly think the strict hands on wheel requirement isn't helping. The cabin camera making sure you are paying attention is the real method.

 

[David99]

I can’t say for certain but I’ll go out on a limb and say that no, you likely can’t get this sort of feature via CANBUS since this literally hijacks the scroll wheel hardware. Pretty sure that would be impossible via a standard communication port

(Well, maybe not impossible but def unlikely)

The S3Y buttons do via CAN bus.

 

[Dewg]

Better voice recognition. It used to be great, but rarely understands me. It's certainly worse in my MS than my MY.

Voice recognition requires an Internet connection, at least on my car. The only reason I can think of is that your voice is being compressed and sent to Tesla servers and then sent back down to the car as commands.

When I'm underground in a car park, with no cell service, all my voice commands fail.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Nighttime 8 torque messages over 10 miles in 30 minutes.

Eyes on road, hands at 9 and 3, applying no torque unless requested.

Seems a bit higher than during the day and nag rate perhaps went up in darker areas.

Wish I had the IR!

But still not that bad. But false positive nag rate is still too high.

 

[joe.smith]

It goes without saying that, obviously, people shouldn't use such devices to allow themselves to drive irresponsibly/distracted or without their hands on the wheel. Thats not what this thread is about. On the other hand... the autopilot barking with the new NTSB update is starting to get on my nerves to the point where I started to research DIY/retail anti-nag devices and ran across a small little module that sits behind one of the scroll wheels on the steering wheel and gives it input at random intervals (which is pretty much how I keep autopilot from barking in the first place).

This seems like a decent compromise to other solutions I've seen floating around (many of which seem downright dangerous to be using IMO). Is anyone using such a device? Its certainly a clever solution but I suspect it might be detectable by Tesla (depending on how the system is actually designed)

Okay, I'll bite. So, why is your car constantly nagging you. I have the latest AP software and it rarely nags me. Of course, I keep my hand(s) rested on the steering wheel to quickly take over if need be. Are you saying you do that and it still nags you constantly?

Joe

 

[uscbucsfan]

Nighttime 8 torque messages over 10 miles in 30 minutes.

Eyes on road, hands at 9 and 3, applying no torque unless requested.

Seems a bit higher than during the day and nag rate perhaps went up in darker areas.

Wish I had the IR!

But still not that bad. But false positive nag rate is still too high.

Try to turn your screen brightness up.

Not ideal, but works on my non-IR MY. My MS camera works better at night.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Voice recognition requires an Internet connection, at least on my car. The only reason I can think of is that your voice is being compressed and sent to Tesla servers and then sent back down to the car as commands.

When I'm underground in a car park, with no cell service, all my voice commands fail.

Could be the quality of the internet, but I can still stream...kids still play video games in the back (they love that update).

 

[CCopperpot]

Okay, I'll bite. So, why is your car constantly nagging you. I have the latest AP software and it rarely nags me. Of course, I keep my hand(s) rested on the steering wheel to quickly take over if need be. Are you saying you do that and it still nags you constantly?

Joe

I'm guessing its perhaps how I grip the wheel? I've seen suggestions on how to hold the wheel to avoid a nag but it's not very comfortable for my lanky self. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I can keep the nags away if I'm keeping torque on the wheel but I feel like I'm constantly walking a fine line of knocking it out of AP, especially around a bend in the road (and its pretty annoying to do if I'm being honest... which is why I just articulate the scroll wheel every few seconds to dismiss all of the popups opposed to keeping torque)

 

[JB47394]

I can keep the nags away if I'm keeping torque on the wheel but I feel like I'm constantly walking a fine line of knocking it out of AP, especially around a bend in the road (and its pretty annoying to do if I'm being honest...

Do you ever actually break out of Autopilot or is the frustration that you feel like you will?

 

[David99]

I think it's fair to remember that just because one person finds it easy to apply the right amount of torque, it might not be easy or natural for another. It's not a case of 'you are doing it wrong'. If you are paying attention and you can take over quickly, you are safe and whatever device you are using makes no different in that regard.

 

[CCopperpot]

Do you ever actually break out of Autopilot or is the frustration that you feel like you will?

To be honest, I don’t typically drive like that for the reasons stated, but I have definitely knocked myself out of AP by torquing the wheel a bit too much upon being prompted to do so (or when the wheel turns itself and I’m hanging on a bit too tight)

 

[David99]

Do you ever actually break out of Autopilot or is the frustration that you feel like you will?

I have accidentally disengaged AP in longer turns. It seems to increase the force needed in one direction, but decreases in the other. It also happened to me sometimes when AP makes sudden adjustments and just my hands being on the wheel caused enough friction/lag to disengage.

 

[JB47394]

I think it's fair to remember that just because one person finds it easy to apply the right amount of torque, it might not be easy or natural for another. It's not a case of 'you are doing it wrong'. If you are paying attention and you can take over quickly, you are safe and whatever device you are using makes no different in that regard.

Yep. Tesla created a new and arbitrary additional test of manual dexterity for driving a car - maintaining that torque on the steering wheel. It isn't a skill that was ever required of a driver, but they require it. So anyone who can drive a car perfectly well but cannot manage that dexterity test is out of luck.

As you say, it is situational awareness that's important. That's what we require of drivers today, and every driver should already be maintaining it. Almost inevitably, driver monitoring by camera will upset far more people than the torque test because so many drivers don't maintain situational awareness. They want to get those texts out, pick up that object that fell into the passenger well, discipline that child in the back seat, find the exact right song on streaming, etc. Without the driver monitoring, people would continue to get away with ever more egregious lapses until they're in the back seat again, shooting Tik Tok videos.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Try to turn your screen brightness up.

Not ideal, but works on my non-IR MY. My MS camera works better at night.

Daytime 4 torque messages over 9 miles in 30 minutes.

Eyes on road, hands at 9 and 3, applying zero torque unless requested. I was very careful not to apply any torque unless requested. Just resting hands/fingertips very lightly on wheel propping them up with my elbows. I was very careful to lock my gaze on the road and not look at screen.

Nag rate a little lower than nighttime and actually I think this was higher than I expected and have seen in the past (maybe when I am not thinking about zero torque on the wheel I apply some torque). As mentioned it depends on intervention rate which can vary.

Not too bad. But false positive nag rate is still too high. They need to track arm position and not ask for torque when it is clear that hands are on wheel (it cannot see hands or the wheel but it does not need to).

Anyway it is all quite tolerable.

I’ll try a normal drive next, torquing as much as is natural.

 

[David99]

Eyes on road, hands at 9 and 3, applying zero torque unless requested. I was very careful not to apply any torque unless requested. Just resting hands/fingertips very lightly on wheel propping them up with my elbows. I was very careful to lock my gaze on the road and not look at screen.

Sounds like a wonderful and relaxed driving experience.

 

[ATPMSD]

Let’s not be too harsh on Tesla or NHTSA. If you want to know why the nag system has been updated it is because far too many people decided they did not want to operate the car as Tesla designed it.

 

[Dewg]

Let’s not be too harsh on Tesla or NHTSA. If you want to know why the nag system has been updated it is because far too many people decided they did not want to operate the car as Tesla designed it.

And damnit, it's my God given right as an American to disobey traffic laws when I want, only follow the rules when I want, never read the manual, and use my property however I see fit. To hell with everyone else on the road, or general public safety. I've got text messages to reply to, music station lists to peruse, and I will lean over to pick up those french fries I dropped on the floor while traveling at 80MPH. /s

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Sounds like a wonderful and relaxed driving experience.

It would be good if FSD were a bit more functional. It’s ok to look outside the car with hands on wheel. Not much else to do.

 

[David99]

It would be good if FSD were a bit more functional. It’s ok to look outside the car with hands on wheel. Not much else to do.

To be fair, getting FSD right is an enormous task. It has to be better than a human at driving in all conditions or else we will judge it as not good enough. As long as it isn't better than a good human driver, it can't be trusted and thus it needs to be supervised which is annoying. IOW it is not only not helpful until it reaches better-than-human performance, it is an annoyance until then.