US Superchargers open to CCS vehicles

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630710960909619201

• I am a Tesla driver, what additional benefits do I get compared to other electric vehicles?
  As a Tesla driver you benefit from the seamless integration of charge post and vehicle, optimized route planning and battery pre-conditioning. With your Tesla, you’ll also have access to the lowest Supercharger pricing.

So who will be the first to post a video or image of this working? Just go into the Tesla app, click your acct. then sipe left on the icons below your image and choose Charge Your Non-Tesla and you'll see all the chargers you can use:

West coast:

Placerville, CA
Scott's Valley, CA

East Coast:

Batavia, NY
Brewster, NY
Hancock, NY
Fredonia, NY
Malta, NY
Parish, NY
Red Hook, NY
Verona, NY

 

[tivoboy]

It's not just the lines, it's that the app will tell you stalls are open and then you arrive to find a line. Had you known you'd have stopped at an earlier charger...

For at least a Tesla owner/driver wouldn’t the app/in car nav be telling you how many are open/in use regardless of if it is a Tesla or other CCS user? I would imagine that once the MD is removed and a charging session started that that stall is going to show IN USE or at least be removed from the open available #’s.

technically, we might know even SOONER how many stalls are in use/used than with another Tesla owner / user since I would imagine that once the MD is removed - the CCS session is authenticated and then the MD is removed I would imagine that the Tesla NAV/APP is going to show that stall currently in use even if the CCS user hasn’t plugged in yet or their vehicle hasn’t finalized the handshake.

Or are you considering this from the CSS user perspective in that they MAY not be able to see how many stalls at any given SC Location are currently available vs. in use by Tesla or CCS users.

I would imagine that somehow someone is going to enable whatever API that companies like ABRP are using to scrape the current in use vs. available stalls at given SC’s. I always wondered how they were doing this.

 

[RTPEV]

For at least a Tesla owner/driver wouldn’t the app/in car nav be telling you how many are open/in use regardless of if it is a Tesla or other CCS user? I would imagine that once the MD is removed and a charging session started that that stall is going to show IN USE or at least be removed from the open available #’s.

technically, we might know even SOONER how many stalls are in use/used than with another Tesla owner / user since I would imagine that once the MD is removed - the CCS session is authenticated and then the MD is removed I would imagine that the Tesla NAV/APP is going to show that stall currently in use even if the CCS user hasn’t plugged in yet or their vehicle hasn’t finalized the handshake.

Or are you considering this from the CSS user perspective in that they MAY not be able to see how many stalls at any given SC Location are currently available vs. in use by Tesla or CCS users.

I would imagine that somehow someone is going to enable whatever API that companies like ABRP are using to scrape the current in use vs. available stalls at given SC’s. I always wondered how they were doing this.

Detecting which pedestals are in use is not a big problem. Obviously Tesla (and other network providers) can get real-time information on which stalls are in use (and hopefully any potential faults with them) since they are monitoring usage and billing for it. These things are connected to the network. And many can expose that status via an API to clients that are authorized to get that data (ABRP apparently has some kind of deal with Tesla to access that information for Superchargers).

The problem is that certain CCS vehicles may be parked in the adjacent pedestal's parking spot because their charge port is on the "wrong" side. So they will activate 2A's magic dock and now Tesla will show 2A as being used, but if they are parked in 2B's spot, they are effectively blocking 2B and it is useless to Tesla drivers (although it may be useful to a non-Tesla parked in 2C!)

 

[arbitrage000]

Exactly...if CCS cars are blocking spots it will look like there are available chargers on the Tesla app/nav but they may be just blocked by CCS having to park over two spots. So you could arrive with nav saying 3 spots and there will be a lineup to wait for spots to be unblocked (which depending on if there are CCS or Teslas in the line could take awhile).

 

[tivoboy]

Detecting which pedestals are in use is not a big problem. Obviously Tesla (and other network providers) can get real-time information on which stalls are in use (and hopefully any potential faults with them) since they are monitoring usage and billing for it. These things are connected to the network. And many can expose that status via an API to clients that are authorized to get that data (ABRP apparently has some kind of deal with Tesla to access that information for Superchargers).

The problem is that certain CCS vehicles may be parked in the adjacent pedestal's parking spot because their charge port is on the "wrong" side. So they will activate 2A's magic dock and now Tesla will show 2A as being used, but if they are parked in 2B's spot, they are effectively blocking 2B and it is useless to Tesla drivers (although it may be useful to a non-Tesla parked in 2C!)

Ah, that makes sense…

I would say though, that until a better solution is made (maybe some CCS with longer cords or only spots with empty spaces to the right - just in case, that maybe Tesla could capture the users vehicle type with understanding of where the charge port is, and infer based on the SC or Stall IF the driver is most likely going to be sadly blocking a stall to the right of the SC they have authorized. Heck, Tesla could even PUSH to the user trying to authenticate a stall that say 8B would be a better stall for you use rather than the 4A that you are trying to use as that will take up 4B as well.

The vehicle models are quite limited at this point, the SC locations and configurations are certainly known - especially the CCS equipped ones, the location of the charge ports on all makes and models is known, it’s a pretty simple match, math, logistics exercise to do at this point.

ChatGPT could probably do it in ten seconds. ;-)

 

[viper2ko]

Exactly...if CCS cars are blocking spots it will look like there are available chargers on the Tesla app/nav but they may be just blocked by CCS having to park over two spots. So you could arrive with nav saying 3 spots and there will be a lineup to wait for spots to be unblocked (which depending on if there are CCS or Teslas in the line could take awhile).

brewster right now shows 3/8 available. to everyone's point. a tesla owner would see this and go but arrive to see 2 ccs cars using 4 spots

 

[MP3Mike]

brewster right now shows 3/8 available. to everyone's point. a tesla owner would see this and go but arrive to see 2 ccs cars using 4 spots

And even if that was the case, there would still be one stall available for them to use.

 

[RTPEV]

Ah, that makes sense…

I would say though, that until a better solution is made (maybe some CCS with longer cords or only spots with empty spaces to the right - just in case, that maybe Tesla could capture the users vehicle type with understanding of where the charge port is, and infer based on the SC or Stall IF the driver is most likely going to be sadly blocking a stall to the right of the SC they have authorized. Heck, Tesla could even PUSH to the user trying to authenticate a stall that say 8B would be a better stall for you use rather than the 4A that you are trying to use as that will take up 4B as well.

The vehicle models are quite limited at this point, the SC locations and configurations are certainly known - especially the CCS equipped ones, the location of the charge ports on all makes and models is known, it’s a pretty simple match, math, logistics exercise to do at this point.

ChatGPT could probably do it in ten seconds. ;-)

So a few more barriers to your idea...

1. The car in question would have to support the Plug & Charge standard to be able to communicate it's "id" out of the CCS port. Yes, some cars support this today. Not all though, and certainly none that are more than a year or so old I would suspect.
2. The Magic Dock adapter would have to pass through whatever communication is taking place to support vehicle ID (this is probably the most probable of actually working).
3. The Supercharger end would have to have software rewritten to handle the Plug & Charge communication in order to be able to identify the vehicle type plugged in. And we can be pretty sure this isn't the case today because if it was, Tesla would offer it as an authentication and payment method rather than going through the app and having to manually select the stall.
4. And of course even then we don't know if the vehicle actually just parked in an adjacent stall, or parked sideways and blocked THREE spots, or did something else creative (like parking around the back side of the stalls?)
5. Very detailed maps of each site would have to be known to determine which adjacent spots may or may not be blocked by a CCS vehicle plugged in. And in some cases (where you have back-to-back stalls), it may not even be possible to determine this.

My hope is that Tesla proceeds cautiously here and learns from this limited trial that they have to do things differently when they roll this out further, and hopefully that means better site planning and V4 stalls that are more accommodating to various vehicle types.

 

[tivoboy]

So a few more barriers to your idea...

1. The car in question would have to support the Plug & Charge standard to be able to communicate it's "id" out of the CCS port. Yes, some cars support this today. Not all though, and certainly none that are more than a year or so old I would suspect.
2. The Magic Dock adapter would have to pass through whatever communication is taking place to support vehicle ID (this is probably the most probable of actually working).
3. The Supercharger end would have to have software rewritten to handle the Plug & Charge communication in order to be able to identify the vehicle type plugged in. And we can be pretty sure this isn't the case today because if it was, Tesla would offer it as an authentication and payment method rather than going through the app and having to manually select the stall.
4. And of course even then we don't know if the vehicle actually just parked in an adjacent stall, or parked sideways and blocked THREE spots, or did something else creative (like parking around the back side of the stalls?)
5. Very detailed maps of each site would have to be known to determine which adjacent spots may or may not be blocked by a CCS vehicle plugged in. And in some cases (where you have back-to-back stalls), it may not even be possible to determine this.

My hope is that Tesla proceeds cautiously here and learns from this limited trial that they have to do things differently when they roll this out further, and hopefully that means better site planning and V4 stalls that are more accommodating to various vehicle types.

I think you overthought my idea and point… just have the user TELL TESLA in the app what type of vehicle they are charging. That shouldn’t be hard to do, could be a requirement - with VIN say and all users will have to have the app, login and payment method anyway. From there, then just continue with my simple logistics and math problem.

And of course, TESLA already HAD all of #5

 

[RTPEV]

I think you overthought my idea and point… just have the user TELL TESLA in the app what type of vehicle they are charging. That shouldn’t be hard to do, could be a requirement - with VIN say and all users will have to have the app, login and payment method anyway. From there, then just continue with my simple logistics and math problem.

And of course, TESLA already HAD all of #5

I agree that it doesn't need to be as automated as I laid out, so fair point. But I do think it still leaves a pretty complicated procedure that may or may not even be accurate, given my #4 and #5. And speaking of #5, while some department within Tesla I'm sure has some kind of site plan for each site, I'd be willing to be it's not in a format that's easily digestable by a system capable of estimating which adjacent stalls might be blocked by a vehicle. Impossible? No. But if you're going to go to all the difficulty of all that and requiring the user to go through the difficulty of inputting extra data (or even adding non-Tesla vehicles to their account so they can select which one they are charging), then you may as well just simply asking them to select the stall they are charging from and any stall(s) they are blocking (although who knows if you'll get an honest answer there).

 

[texas_star_TM3]

going to be really popular when a Chevy Bolt blocks 2 charging stalls (using one, blocking another) and then sits there charging for 1hr+ (...) another thing i noticed is the users fiddling around with the app ... meanwhile a Tesla would already be well underway with a charge and in/out quicker.

if Tesla ramps up new chargers and keeps up with the extra demand... fine... we shall see.

on the bright side and once rolled out extensively ... Tesla will have to up their service experience or people are more likely to switch to other EV brands while still benefitting from Supercharger experience

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

MKBHD and State of Charge ran into each other

 

[MP3Mike]

I saw a tweet of a Taycan using a Supercharger, and while it had to pull all the way forward, it wasn't blocking any stalls.

So it seems like just about all current EVs can use them. (Lucid seems like it will have the biggest problem.)

 

[DeepBlueMN]

No, using one stall and blocking one stall. Unless another non-Tesla comes and uses the "blocked" stall.

So, in other words, “yes”.

 

[israndy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631138571330437123

 

[DeepBlueMN]

Yeah, this whole Magic Dock is not going to turn out well. Once it rolls out to a “Red” state, I give it a month before shots are fired.
IMHO, the user agreement for non-Teslas should state that the non-Tesla is not allowed to park in a manner that would block a second charger.

 

[scottf200]

I think you overthought my idea and point… just have the user TELL TESLA in the app what type of vehicle they are charging. That shouldn’t be hard to do, could be a requirement - with VIN say and all users will have to have the app, login and payment method anyway. From there, then just continue with my simple logistics and math problem.

And of course, TESLA already HAD all of #5

That is a solid idea and seems like an apparent solution when I saw this graphic last night.

 

[STS-134]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631138571330437123

You're not supposed to be able to plug or unplug anything into the CCS adapter when it's plugged into the car. That's what that connector lock that presses against the car and locks the connector in place is for.

 

[MP3Mike]

You're not supposed to be able to plug or unplug anything into the CCS adapter when it's plugged into the car. That's what that connector lock that presses against the car and locks the connector in place is for.

Yep, but I saw someone else do it and it worked just fine.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Yeah, this whole Magic Dock is not going to turn out well. Once it rolls out to a “Red” state, I give it a month before shots are fired.
IMHO, the user agreement for non-Teslas should state that the non-Tesla is not allowed to park in a manner that would block a second charger.

Parking my Rivian into a stall effectively blocks a charger to a Tesla.

If you don't allow a Rivian then you also don't allow any vehicle with the charge port on the front driver side.

Ultimately I think Tesla is just going to have to tell people where to park at Magic Dock equipped locations.

They might have to tell some owners that they can't charge there due to the cable length and port location. But, that's playing a dangerous game when it comes to the federal dollars that Tesla is after.

Tesla isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts nor are they trying to get additional revenue. Instead its all about the federal money. To maximize that money its easier for Tesla to let customers figure it out.

My experiences with it will dictate whether I choose a Magic Doc supercharger location or an EA location. I already know from experience that I'll pick a Rivian RAN charger over anything else.

 

[DeepBlueMN]

Parking my Rivian into a stall effectively blocks a charger to a Tesla.

If you don't allow a Rivian then you also don't allow any vehicle with the charge port on the front driver side.

Ultimately I think Tesla is just going to have to tell people where to park at Magic Dock equipped locations.

They might have to tell some owners that they can't charge there due to the cable length and port location. But, that's playing a dangerous game when it comes to the federal dollars that Tesla is after.

Tesla isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts nor are they trying to get additional revenue. Instead its all about the federal money. To maximize that money its easier for Tesla to let customers figure it out.

My experiences with it will dictate whether I choose a Magic Doc supercharger location or an EA location. I already know from experience that I'll pick a Rivian RAN charger over anything else.

At retrofit stations, Tesla should limit the number of Magic Dock stations to 1/4 of the site, in order to ease this transition. At least until a cable extender, or other software solution, mitigates the impending gun shots.
It is unclear if Tesla would even qualify for federal dollars on a ”retrofit” station. (Effectively, there is no “new” charging stall capacity.)