That’s right you know. The software is written by neural networks trained to know what we really want. So in some ways complaining now is like arguing with yourself. 
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v11 software update SUCKS
- Thread starter Lynne Therriau
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- software udpates
I'm not sure there is one.
In the laws of every jurisdiction I've looked at, having the main headlights on when visibility is poor is always required. Fog lights are auxiliary lights that may help you see a bit better when visibility is poor. Being at a different position they help illuminate the area in front of the car better. In Europe rear fog lights are a thing too. I think it's for better visibility to people coming up behind you. Those are red lights mounted low in the back.
On my car I turned on the fog lights a few years back and haven't touched the control since. They are always on when the headlights are on.
They sit next to the QA team…You can't fire employees that don't exist
First visit here in six months. Getting the gist of what’s up. So, Elon has no intentions of allowing on-screen customisation of primary controls we use whilst driving, without autopilot. V11 proves this. This was beaten to death and promised, by him via tweet, after the 2020 Christmas UI major overhaul. I want to see frequently used controls at the bottom of the screen, and NOT have them move at the whim of a software designer. I want to form muscle memory, limit eyes off road time, in city traffic. Just Apps drag and drop to this prime realestate, seriously? This will be okay for future car, self drive, full AP, but not before. And, for drivers with presbyopia, the ability to increase the font size/shading of some displays, such as speedometer, gear, etc. Back to the size and shade from 2019, last time it was good for me. The car I test drove and bought. I predict Tesla will always have a niche fan base, but will never be an every mans car.
F.U. Right back Tesla. I made my bed, but you will never get my money again, at upgrade time. One year to go.
F.U. Right back Tesla. I made my bed, but you will never get my money again, at upgrade time. One year to go.
i'm losing track of what's serious and what isn't, but it sounds like you should join tesla's development team with how dismissive you're being.
it's not about complexity. making the driver interact with the screen more frequently (more taps) and with higher precision (buttons in the middle of the screen where you can't brace your hand and tap them easily) absolutely, without question results in forcing the driver to take their eyes off the road and lose concentration for a longer period of time. we can debate how much longer that loss of concentration is and how dangerous this extra time is (among other things, it depends on the speed at which you're driving), but the objective fact that this update requires you to spend more time screwing around with the display instead of driving is not debatable. full stop. as for how dangerous it is, here's a quick study i could find with the most basic google search: The 2-second distraction that lasts longer than 2 seconds | Safety News Alert as expected, the drivers in the study also thought the distraction was no big deal.
now, i know exactly why people at tesla don't care about this, and it's because the entire UI is geared toward people using FSD. that's why the visualization is ginormous (even though it serves zero purpose for people who don't have FSD) and it's why they think it's fine to add extra taps to use commonly used controls (the fact that they are based in california where the weather is always mild doesn't help either). but that doesn't make it so, and being dismissive of it or constantly posting funny memes doesn't change that fact. it also is not helpful to those of us who don't have FSD and never will.
I have no idea how California got entangled into this but I can assure you that we have it all - mild San Diego, scorching Dead Valley, rainy Bay Area and snowy Sierra Nevada (Tahoe just broke the snow record of 1970). One does not even need to leave the state to do a full blown usability testing. Hell, just driving around in the Bay Area, where they are, will show that seat heaters and defrosters position is a mistake.
So, please leave California out of this
It is not an excuse for crappy design.BTW: I agree on the FSD point. Their UI team is running faster than their FSD capabilities. The FSD, while interesting, is far away from full scale deployment - we will need a human driver for a while.
If the FSD was real I can see how the UI should be more like an entertainment console rather than a car management device. The issue is that even as an entertainment console V11 sucks. Just see how it handles audio sources.
I have no idea how California got entangled into this but I can assure you that we have it all - mild San Diego, scorching Dead Valley, rainy Bay Area and snowy Sierra Nevada (Tahoe just broke the snow record of 1970). One does not even need to leave the state to do a full blown usability testing. Hell, just driving around in the Bay Area, where they are, will show that seat heaters and defrosters position is a mistake.
So, please leave California out of this
BTW: I agree on the FSD point. Their UI team is running faster than their FSD capabilities. The FSD, while interesting, is far away from full scale deployment - we will need a human driver for a while.
If the FSD was real I can see how the UI should be more like an entertainment console rather than a car management device. The issue is that even as an entertainment console V11 sucks. Just see how it handles audio sources.
If and when FSD becomes a reality and even if it's legal to not pay attention to the car while it drives itself, there will still be Teslas on the road that are not capable of it, whether because the car is too old or the owner didn't pay for the upgrade. There are also going to be conditions where the FSD isn't functional for one reason or another and situations where the owner wants to drive the car themselves.
Microsoft went and did this with Windows 8. They were thinking in terms of everyone using a tablet like the Surface and completely botched the experience for anyone using Windows on a more conventional computer setup (laptop or desktop) without a touch screen. They got tremendous pushback from customers because Windows was and is still the most common business office OS in the world.
Even is FSD actually does come to fruition there will be legal hurdles to getting legislatures to allow vehicles to move around with no driver. Considering how automated commercial aircraft are and they have only eliminated one crew member in the last 50 years (the navigator), I don't see legislatures being comfortable with FSD vehicles running loose on city streets with human driven vehicles and pedestrians until they have proven themselves capable and that means the law will require the driver to sit there and monitor the vehicle driving itself.
I expect during the transition period when vehicles are almost there, but still get confused sometimes there will be some bad accidents because drivers who should have been paying attention weren't because watching the car drive itself is too boring and when something does happen where a human needs to take over they will be too distracted at the critical moment.
That will likely make legislatures more hesitant to approve removal of the driver from the equation.
It’s against the law in UK for them to always be on… Highway Code states:
Rule 236
You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
linux-works
Active Member
nah, this is just elon's mgmt style. it runs thru and thru the company. the company is based on the leader's personality and we all know the fix to this problem...
its not about being software. its about having restraint, GOOD vision (not the BS that elon is all about) and keeping the customer in mind at all times. its for THEM that you make cars, not for YOU, the engineer.
its who they hire, how they work as a company. and again, its mostly elon. remove him and put a sane mgr in and the whole company could be turned around. totally could happen but you have to knock off that clown at the top and no one seems willing to do that.
this is my first and last tesla. due to elon and how he runs the company into the ground.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Just outside the offices of the public relations department.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Sort of disagree, to a point. It is through all things Elon that we even have a Tesla to debate, with five current models (including the couple of recently-delivered Semi’s to PepsiCo’s Frito Lay). Also, the company with Elon at the helm has done very well for investors over most reasonable timelines. Those are not fails. I would attribute our current issues with a huge disconnect between driving a car today on today’s roads in today’s traffic in today’s weather throughout today’s many disparate geographies, and what the future expectation is for full FSD whatever that means. We owners need the former, the software seems to think we already have the latter.
At first, I was excited to have the blind spot camera feature. However, after 2 weeks, I find that, as currently implemented, the feature is not usable. First, the image is too small to process with a brief glance. Second, the image appears at the bottom of the screen which forces the driver to take their eyes off the road for too long. I wish Tesla would improve this feature.
danarcha
Member
Agreed. I think it would be better at the top left of the screen just below the speedometer. I'm used to glancing over there to check my speed and it would be a more natural place to quickly check for someone in my blindspot.
totally agree! the list of stupid changes is loooong!
-climate controls: why would you bury climate controls? seat heating and steering wheel heating. If I just want to turn on the seat now the whole climate system turns on?!?!?! wtf
-Navigation: took a long trip from Boston to OBX and took 4 wrong turns because of the nav. Before it would never happen. Many functions need to be tweaked. Do they test things with new people in new places before they release these updates. You need to allow more customization in the nav function.
-not sure if the cell signal works?
-not sure if the dash cam works?
I feel like I'm being held hostage with this update. A letter will come in the mail saying " we want one million $ , if you want your normal life back"
finman100
Member
compass now blocked when you navigate. the directions box covers the upper left corner where some dumbshit thought it was a good idea to move to. you tap the map and the box moves down to show the compass for 5 seconds, then it goes right back to covering it up.
wow. Elon, you're ****ing fired. or someone should be. fail, fail, and even more fail. this just absolutely sucks. not just the interface but the fact Tesla will do NOTHING about it.
well at least now the new version of the app doesn't mix km and miles when i didn't change anything. yay?
wow. Elon, you're ****ing fired. or someone should be. fail, fail, and even more fail. this just absolutely sucks. not just the interface but the fact Tesla will do NOTHING about it.
well at least now the new version of the app doesn't mix km and miles when i didn't change anything. yay?
Interesting point about W8. It also marked the point when Mac OS (more traditional desktop UI) started making serious gain into the business environment. Tesla does need viable competitor.
FSD is a very, very thorny issue and I am surprised that Tesla is betting so much on it. Technology-wise, it is a very hard problem to solve, especially given the mix of FSD and non-FSD cars on the road. In a lot of situations, especially in the cities, we do brake the rules with common understanding between us that it helps smoothen the traffic. On how many occasions we have an eye contact with the other driver and have a tacit understanding of what happens next, regardless of what should happen according to the rules. Aerospace is a good example of what should happen - strong regulatory framework that moves _all_ manufacturers together, on the same standard. That cannot happen in the automotive world.
Legally, this is also very, very thorny. If the car drives itself why would I be liable for any mistakes? If I am liable and in control then FSD is, at best, an assistance device. If I am liable and in control then the interface should allow me to be in control.
If the FSD is in control (where it seems that Tesla is heading) that would bring a whole set of new challenges. Suddenly, they will not be able to absolve themselves from liability anymore (some interesting developments around crashes while FSD is enable give you a glimpse of what is to come).
Additionally, some interesting ethical problems will arise. For example, a car on FSD has a choice to either kill 3 people or kill the driver. If the algorithm is to minimize casualties then who would buy such car? And, how would the buyer even know the optimization criteria? Given who is teaching the ML now I have some serious concerns. Happens to live in San Francisco and see those 20-25 year old software engineers driving the cars around and teaching them how to drive. While they follow the rules their driving is horrible - too slow, stopping in the middle of the intersection, waiting too long, etc. I would much prefer a 50 year old truck driver with beer belly and ZZ Top style beard teaching the car
In any case, I think that if the want to pursue FSD it should happen in parallel, not instead of a good, normal car that is driver-focused. Currently, the message is somewhat schizophrenic - awesome 0-60, track mode, etc. on one hand and semi-baked FSD, game console style interface, etc. on the other.
If they will continue to talk about performance why don’t I see accelerometers, temp of vital components, lean angles, etc. I cannot even measure 0-60 with the built-in interface. What kind of track mode are we talking about?!
Something is very, very wrong with the whole UI vision…
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Must be a difference in the 3/Y and S/X interfaces. I've never seen a compass in my S. Though I also have an AP1 S.
Reading this thread, it looks like your experience with V11 is very different based on what model of car and what version of hardware you have. My main gripes with V11 are:
1) Map zooming is borked and the +/- control is gone
2) Climate controls put most of the controls I need a level down, which is more dangerous
3) The ability to change charge level is gone
A lot of the other complaints I haven't seen. I still have the energy display, both on the large screen and in the instrument cluster. The trip odometers appear unchanged. I don't have the cameras for blind spot monitoring, so it's not there.
The new UI is definitely worse than V10, but I think some car/hardware combinations got it worse. I read that V11 was an attempt to port features from the new S to the other cars. It appears from the complaints that the single screen on the 3/Y is now overloaded with more information than it can handle. With the instrument cluster on the S/X it's not quite as bad, but it still has problems.
For clarification I suggest when people comment on the interface issues they include the car model and year. That will help all of us get a better idea what the different problems are on the different cars. I already included my car's specs in my sig line and some others have done the same, but a lot of people don't.
smogne41
Active Member
The 3/Y screen is not overloaded with information. It is now just 'clean' with almost no useful information (about the actual operation of the car).
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