Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[Discoducky]

I hold Sig#1100 and thinking of deferring/cancelling. I have several open questions, but am strongly considering falling back to my production reservation. It is more 'death by a thousand cuts' than one or two things, but if I had to sum it up I'd say that I need more spec's and I currently drive a Model S.

 

[AnOutsider]

I hold Sig#1100 and thinking of deferring/cancelling. I have several open questions, but am strongly considering falling back to my production reservation. It is more 'death by a thousand cuts' than one or two things, but if I had to sum it up I'd say that I need more spec's and I currently drive a Model S.

Thanks for putting that thought into words for me. I can excuse several things on their own, but the sum of them all becomes a bit worrisome. The FWDs are too showy for my tastes, but I can accept them if they offer utility. They seem to maybe do that, but they also seem like a headache waiting to happen. New nose is ugly to us. No second row folding is a problem. Forced performance on sig is a problem (rectified by dropping down). etc etc.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Very sad to see the chaos that the X event has left in its wake with many Sig res holders feeling so frustrated and some canceling.

The X appears to be less an SUV and more an SGV (Sport Gimmicky Vehicle). Too much going on, it appears, and not-upto-snuff in terms of utility. The S has surprisingly excelled at the utility part; pretty much the handles alone are gimmicky there.

I just don't understand Tesla's logic in not putting out detailed specs on the Sig configs. What are they thinking back in Palo Alto?!! Are they so underprepared? It's sad, frustrating and comical, all rolled into one.

 

[Saxena]

...
I just don't understand Tesla's logic in not putting out detailed specs on the Sig configs. What are they thinking back in Palo Alto?!! Are they so underprepared? It's sad, frustrating and comical, all rolled into one.

After reading many threads/posts, the only explanation I can come up with is that Tesla is still working on some items (... seats) and hopes to have it ready very soon, hence the lack of providing specs... not that I agree in the lack of communication, but just a thought.

 

[tga]

No I still would have gotten the X as a long term investor I want to experience owning their products to make sure I'm confident in holding shares long term (5 years+). I just would have been 90% happy with it instead of 110% happy with what they actually did do with the Model X 2nd row seats. However, my wife may have been more like 70% happy with it instead of 110% happy with it as she is much more conscious about the ease of putting kids in and out since we have 2 toddlers and another on the way.

Wait, I'm confused. You (and your wife) would be less happy if the X's 2nd row seats folded? Why? What's the downside to adding a feature that you don't need/value (but others do)?

 

[Cyclone]

Wait, I'm confused. You (and your wife) would be less happy if the X's 2nd row seats folded? Why? What's the downside to adding a feature that you don't need/value (but others do)?

The (rather reasonable) assumption is that if the seats folded, they couldn't pivot forward like they do now, meaning that car seats could not remain in the 2nd row when you needed the cargo space. For someone who has a higher need for car seats/people moving than cargo moving, losing the ability to never have to take out the car seats would be a major loss.

The best option would be folding seats that also pivot like they do now. It would be the best of both worlds. However, we do not have seats like those in the X at this time.

 

[AlMc]

Very sad to see the chaos that the X event has left in its wake with many Sig res holders feeling so frustrated and some canceling.

The X appears to be less an SUV and more an SGV (Sport Gimmicky Vehicle). Too much going on, it appears, and not-upto-snuff in terms of utility. The S has surprisingly excelled at the utility part; pretty much the handles alone are gimmicky there.

I just don't understand Tesla's logic in not putting out detailed specs on the Sig configs. What are they thinking back in Palo Alto?!! Are they so underprepared? It's sad, frustrating and comical, all rolled into one.

Agreed. It would be less of a problem in my household if they allowed the Sigs to 'hold' their configurations for say 3 months as TM works through, and IMO, inevitably offers a folding seat option. We have waited 2-3 tears, what is 3 more months! However, this is not the case: 'Configure/confirm now or drop back out of Sig land': I again accept this as a 'first world problem' but for their most loyal customers who have loaned them $40K for a bit of time it would seem the least they could do.

 

[tonyinc]

After reading many threads/posts, the only explanation I can come up with is that Tesla is still working on some items (... seats) and hopes to have it ready very soon, hence the lack of providing specs... not that I agree in the lack of communication, but just a thought.

IMO it is quite obvious one of two things is going on here:

1 - The car is not really ready. They are rushing what they have now in to production to avoid at least another 6 month to a year delay. This will probably cause massive delays all the way down the line as they try to change things to more of what they (and their customers) want in to the running production.

This is the only reason I can think of why they would not release at least a full spec sheet. If the car is ready for production or beginning production they definitely have this. After all people have been sticking with them for years, and surely they understand the disappointment of people who after years and (putting money where their mouth is) still don't have detail on the production car or any (believable) delivery estimates.

Or

2 - The car is ready and they have the specs...and they just don't notice or care about how Tesla loyalists and deposit holders feel.

As someone else put it, "death by a thousand cuts" and I will add "death by a thousand cuts over a three year period". At this point I just don't believe them anymore. I guess they think they will be punished unfairly for the truth or they just don't care to tell us the truth.

No excuse for not providing the info Tesla. The car did release or launch right?

Or I forgot #3
They are overwhelmed with the response and cancellations due to seats or something else and are deciding what to do. They may have gotten a little arrogant and not done any research to see what their customers actually wanted/needed from the X.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

IMO it is quite obvious one of two things is going on here:

1 - The car is not really ready. They are rushing what they have now in to production to avoid at least another 6 month to a year delay. This will probably cause massive delays all the way down the line as they try to change things to more of what they (and their customers) want in to the running production.

This is the only reason I can think of why they would not release at least a full spec sheet. If the car is ready for production or beginning production they definitely have this. After all people have been sticking with them for years, and surely they understand the disappointment of people who after years and (putting money where their mouth is) still don't have detail on the production car or any (believable) delivery estimates.

Or

2 - The car is ready and they have the specs...and they just don't notice or care about how Tesla loyalists and deposit holders feel.

As someone else put it, "death by a thousand cuts" and I will add "death by a thousand cuts over a three year period". At this point I just don't believe them anymore. I guess they think they will be punished unfairly for the truth or they just don't care to tell us the truth.

No excuse for not providing the info Tesla. The car did release or launch right?

I don't think that's "obvious" at all, which is why people are discussing the possibilities. Even if #1 were a possibility, "your 6 month to a year delay" is pretty out there.

 

[tonyinc]

I don't think that's "obvious" at all, which is why people are discussing the possibilities. Even if #1 were a possibility, "your 6 month to a year delay" is pretty out there.

Are you seriously saying a 6 month to year delay for the X is "out there"? With a straight face I mean.

To be fair I don't mean for the Sigs, I mean for any meaningful production deliveries.

 

[electracity]

Very sad to see the chaos that the X event has left in its wake with many Sig res holders feeling so frustrated and some canceling.

The X appears to be less an SUV and more an SGV (Sport Gimmicky Vehicle). Too much going on, it appears, and not-upto-snuff in terms of utility. The S has surprisingly excelled at the utility part; pretty much the handles alone are gimmicky there.

I just don't understand Tesla's logic in not putting out detailed specs on the Sig configs. What are they thinking back in Palo Alto?!! Are they so underprepared? It's sad, frustrating and comical, all rolled into one.

I don't think this situation is very sad, because organizing the rear of the car to satisfy more western SUV buyers is completely doable. The hard part of the car is done.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Tonyinc,

I think you are onto something. I think another possibility is that they are ready but can't announce all of the other features because it could greatly cannibalize S sales (Osborne Effect).

Based on the mules and pictures on Tesla's own site, I think there are a few more features that weren't on the founder models. I also think that they will have to add these features to the S sooner than later. They don't want to risk cancellations so they don't announce things until they ship or have already shipped, as with autopilot.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Are you seriously saying a 6 month to year delay for the X is "out there"? With a straight face I mean.

To be fair I don't mean for the Sigs, I mean for any meaningful production deliveries.

I think a delay could be "closer" to 6 months, and that a year is particularly ridiculous. And, yes, I'm sitting here typing this with a straight face, to someone who just joined the forum, has been overly critical of the Model X, and has cited Bjorn Lomborg to back the assertion that BEVs aren't actually clean.

 

[tonyinc]

I think a delay could be "closer" to 6 months, and that a year is particularly ridiculous. And, yes, I'm sitting here typing this with a straight face, to someone who just joined the forum, has been overly critical of the Model X, and has cited Bjorn Lomborg to back the assertion that BEVs aren't actually clean.

I appreciate that. The Bjorn Lomborg quote was lame, the other article was good however. Anyway if you read all of the posts and not just the snippits, I never said BEV were not clean the definitely are. I was just responding to holier-than-thou people who think they are "zero emissions" and then got dragged in to the weeds with specific numbers based on regions.

Every post had a portion where I said BEV are the future and it is commendable to own one, and that the S could be the best car ever made.

I also appreciate the senior contributors, without you we would really be in the dark. Alway lots of good info. I too would be weary of new members.

My growing disappointment over the past few weeks has made me a little down on Tesla I will admit. But after giving them so much slack so many times and forgoing other car purchases. I was sure the X launch would provide some sort of satisfaction that I had done the right thing. I finally realize, I have not necessarily been treated fairly by Tesla. I know they have their reasons and they need to do what they have to to survive...but it still stings when you start to feel unimportant to something you supported for so long.

 

[tga]

I can only imagine the anguish I'd feel over cancelling a Sig reservation after giving up 40k for years.

I got my reservation (16388) back in March, and I had enough anguish over cancelling that. Originally, I viewed the reservation as a refundable $5k option, with the only real cost the opportunity cost on the money. I went ahead in case the queue doubled in size after the release, the X turned out to be a must-have, and I was suddenly looking at a one year wait.

I was interested in the X as a replacement for 2 (possibly 3) vehicle in the "fleet": my high MPG commuter (Mini), stuff hauling/boat towing pickup, and (maybe) weekend toy (911, which I've decided to keep). But with the limited cargo capacity from the 2nd row seats and the too-low towing (I need ~6k for the boat), I'm out. I don't have a family to haul around, so a vehicle that is more people-hauler and less stuff-hauler isn't that appealing to me.

My next vehicle will be a Tesla, just not an X. I'll probably start hunting for a CPO S to tide me over until the 3 comes out (I prefer smaller cars, anyway). Hopefully I'll get in the 3 queue nice and early.

BTW - the folding Harbor Freight trailer has been mentioned upthread. I had one of those for years; it's very useful. You have to add a 4x8 plywood deck, and build your own sides if desired. It folds in half, stands up on casters, and the tongue folds down. When stashed, it takes up a footprint of about 5'x1' in the garage, and ~6' high. I attached a safety chain to the garage wall to make sure it wouldn't fall over.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I appreciate that. The Bjorn Lomborg quote was lame, the other article was good however. Anyway if you read all of the posts and not just the snippits, I never said BEV were not clean the definitely are. I was just responding to holier-than-thou people who think they are "zero emissions" and then got dragged in to the weeds with specific numbers based on regions.

Every post had a portion where I said BEV are the future and it is commendable to own one, and that the S could be the best car ever made.

I also appreciate the senior contributors, without you we would really be in the dark. Alway lots of good info. I too would be weary of new members.

My growing disappointment over the past few weeks has made me a little down on Tesla I will admit. But after giving them so much slack so many times and forgoing other car purchases. I was sure the X launch would provide some sort of satisfaction that I had done the right thing. I finally realize, I have not necessarily been treated fairly by Tesla. I know they have their reasons and they need to do what they have to to survive...but it still stings when you start to feel unimportant to something you supported for so long.

Well, I'm not a senior member, but thanks for the acknowledgment of others contributions. You are welcome to your opinion, and to be dissatisfied with Tesla's handling of the Model X. I simply did not appreciate the snarky remark regarding my opinion.

 

[Zapped]

DAY THREE COGITATIONS

A very interesting 194 posts in this thread. Here are some new ideas to bring to the fore:

The very first thing I did when I picked up my latest Crew Cab Long Bed (and I mean as soon as I got it into my driveway), was to break out some T-40 bits and extract its rear seat-complex. And those seat pieces have sat in one of my connexes ever since. Now, esp. after this on-line kerfuffle, those fancy seat pillar-posts are going to get a very, very careful look as the first thing I do to the first X I see.

Now, I am fully aware that very few of you would be comfortable driving around w/o that second row of seats, but very few of you would be comfortable with an awful lot of how I live my life.....

Cheers!

The NISSAN Van we had 15 years ago had removal 2nd row seats.
Perhaps there will be an after market solutions for those who need it.

 

[tonyinc]

Well, I'm not a senior member, but thanks for the acknowledgment of others contributions. You are welcome to your opinion, and to be dissatisfied with Tesla's handling of the Model X. I simply did not appreciate the snarky remark regarding my opinion.

Fair, I apologize for the snarkiness toward you. It was should have been directed at Tesla. At this moment, any length delay or change from them would not be unbelievable to me.

 

[gizmoboy]

IMO it is quite obvious one of two things is going on here:

1 - The car is not really ready. They are rushing what they have now in to production to avoid at least another 6 month to a year delay. This will probably cause massive delays all the way down the line as they try to change things to more of what they (and their customers) want in to the running production.

This is the only reason I can think of why they would not release at least a full spec sheet. If the car is ready for production or beginning production they definitely have this. After all people have been sticking with them for years, and surely they understand the disappointment of people who after years and (putting money where their mouth is) still don't have detail on the production car or any (believable) delivery estimates.

Or

2 - The car is ready and they have the specs...and they just don't notice or care about how Tesla loyalists and deposit holders feel.

As someone else put it, "death by a thousand cuts" and I will add "death by a thousand cuts over a three year period". At this point I just don't believe them anymore. I guess they think they will be punished unfairly for the truth or they just don't care to tell us the truth.

No excuse for not providing the info Tesla. The car did release or launch right?

Or I forgot #3
They are overwhelmed with the response and cancellations due to seats or something else and are deciding what to do. They may have gotten a little arrogant and not done any research to see what their customers actually wanted/needed from the X.

You also forgot #4: The possibility that they are concerned about S sales flagging in Q4 if there are a lot of announced features that people think might migrate to future MS builds. (There are a few such threads already in the MS forum, and I'm an object lesson holding out now; if there were definitive final word that no 360-view camera is imminent and that ventilated seats are now an option in MS, I'd bite, but the uncertainty on both of those fronts has me keeping the checkbook closed).

 

[bobinfla]

Just want to add my condolences for the long time reservation holders who've found that the X, at least the current version, doesn't meet their needs and have made the tough decision to cancel their reservation. Hope that a future iteration allows you to get back into the game again. At least when that happens, the wait times won't be as long as what you've gone through to this point.