Was just told that AP 2.0 won't get FSD.

[North75]

Many people spent over $100,000 on the car based on the statement that the car was capable of FSD. Many would've never bought the car to begin but the FSD made it a deciding factor. A $3000 refund isn't enough to make things right.

I'm not saying it's the right thing for Tesla to do if this winds up being true. I'm just thinking that if it goes to court (which I assume it will) that there wouldn't be legal standing to claim $10,000 or more worth of damages. It's not like people weren't able to use the car or even the Enhanced Autopilot portion of it.

We'll see what happens I guess.

 

[chillaban]

Exactly. I remember them saying it's really like "Autopilot 2.1" since there's hardly any difference.

https://electrek.co/2017/08/09/tesla-autopilot-2-5-hardware-computer-autonomous-driving/

“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1. This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”
“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0. If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.”

They are going to lose a lot of goodwill if these rumors are true and they don't make good on their promises. Specifically Tesla owners who bought AP2 with FSD as part of their order. Speaking for myself, I traded in a nice AP1.0 car during the era of Chris Lattner's herky-jerky 17.x.x Autopilot updates where you can choose between wobbly steering or smooth-but-accelerates-into-trucks steering. I didn't even mind going through that whole adventure and it taking another 1-2 years (which is frankly half the lifespan of cars for me) for AP2 to finally start having merit over AP1.

What mattered was that every step along the way, I would get the same updates as a newcomer as far as Autopilot functionality is concerned. And the day that stops being true is the day that I'm going to regret my timing.

I stand with the others. Really the only way to make this right to me is to be able to get me an equivalent vehicle with FSD capability when it's available, with no exchange of money. That's what I paid for and FSD is on my MVPA. I'm sure someone else would be perfectly happy with an EAP AP2.0 car. It's still such a nice system. Just not the functionality I paid for.

 

[commasign]

Can we please stop spreading FUD here? Everyone who’s been here a while knows not to believe what Tesla employees say. And definitely don’t believe what someone on Facebook says.

 

[chillaban]

Because somebody screen capped what somebody else said on Facebook recounting a conversation between yet another party and a 4th party.

I dunno. I mean, seems legit.

The biggest problem to me is Elon for 3-4 months has been saying "HW2" and "all HW2+" and really meaning HW2.5+. So I can't trust reading between the lines any more and giving him the benefit of the doubt that HW2 really means AP2.0 and beyond.

 

[croman]

I'm not saying it's the right thing for Tesla to do if this winds up being true. I'm just thinking that if it goes to court (which I assume it will) that there wouldn't be legal standing to claim $10,000 or more worth of damages. It's not like people weren't able to use the car or even the Enhanced Autopilot portion of it.

We'll see what happens I guess.

Are you an attorney for VW group? Try that again and let's see how it goes?

 

[ucmndd]

The biggest problem to me is Elon for 3-4 months has been saying "HW2" and "all HW2+" and really meaning HW2.5+. So I can't trust reading between the lines any more and giving him the benefit of the doubt that HW2 really means AP2.0 and beyond.

I don’t give Elon the benefit of the doubt on ANY vapor ware features any more, hence why the FSD option is still available for me to purchase. The $2k temptation lasted like 20 seconds.

But I also make it a habit to not get spun up and about something some random said on the internet and start jumping to wild conclusions.

 

[chillaban]

I don’t give Elon the benefit of the doubt on ANY vapor ware features any more, hence why the FSD option is still available for me to purchase. The $2k temptation lasted like 20 seconds.

But I also make it a habit to not get spun up and about something some random said on the internet and start jumping to wild conclusions.

That's a really good point. I am purely speaking hypothetically as in if the rumors turn out to be true. I still want to believe in good faith that it's not true, but based off the circumstantial evidence we've seen, it does make it at least somewhat plausible that AP2.0 might get left behind or at least severely initially delayed.

 

[plumazul]

The biggest problem to me is Elon for 3-4 months has been saying "HW2" and "all HW2+" and really meaning HW2.5+. So I can't trust reading between the lines any more and giving him the benefit of the doubt that HW2 really means AP2.0 and beyond.

What Elon said was what FSD would require a "plugin" upgrade from HW2 -> HW3 and that's what they are going to do. This was settled back in Dec. Why does it keep coming back??

 

[Blitz3RS]

Yeah even though I voted on the poll above, I concur with many of the sentiments of the thread. I'd probably choose a different voting option now that I think of it.

I went back and forth between a brand new AWD LR Model 3 or a Used "CPO---not really CPO" 75D Facelift unicorn that had AP 2.0 and the full unlimited supercharging for the same price.

I bought the S because when comparing the two, I liked the size, free supercharging, and enhanced autopilot/future full self driving ready. Both APs were supposed to be the same, as someone referenced that article that came out saying that 2.5 was a minor inconsequential change. But alas, here were are with no sentry/dashcam (which while sad, isn't FSD so I'm not too bothered about).

As someone who is paid into FSD now, I hope Tesla will make us whole one way or another.

 

[plumazul]

For those with FSD option and HW2.5 there is no doubt at this stage that the free HW3 upgrade is coming as promised, but it seems Tesla has now started to refuse to sell the FSD option to those with HW2.0, as Engineering has decided that it will not [cannot?] be supported:

View attachment 391136

If so, does this mean those who have already paid for FSD on their HW2.0 car will not be receiving the free HW3 upgrade either?

And if that's the case, what is Tesla's solution for those customers?

Do you realize that the entire premise of your post is contradicted by the first line of your screencap?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

What Elon said was what FSD would require a "plugin" upgrade from HW2 -> HW3 and that's what they are going to do. This was settled back in Dec. Why does it keep coming back??

When he said it, new cars were already HW2.5, so it's HW2.5 -> HW3. That's why it's coming back.

A post above in which Elon Musk described the hardware difference suggests that HW 2.0 -> HW 3.0- should be relatively easy, even if not quite as good.

But anyway, the OP's FUD is based on a _different scenario_, which doesn't apply to owners who bought their vehicle new, and especially not to those who have already pre-paid for FSD.

This thread is just FUD with a straw-man poll, since it begs the question of support.

 

[plumazul]

https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1052104593876774912

When he said it, new cars were already HW2.5, so it's HW2.5 -> HW3. That's why it's coming back.

A post above in which Elon Musk described the hardware difference suggests that HW 2.0 -> HW 3.0- should be relatively easy, even if not quite as good.

But anyway, the OP's FUD is based on a _different scenario_, which doesn't apply to owners who bought their vehicle new, and especially not to those who have already pre-paid for FSD.

This thread is just FUD with a straw-man poll, since it begs the question of support.

Back in Oct. Elon said::https://twitter.com/elonmusk

~6 months before it is in all new production cars. No change to sensors. This is simple replacement of the Autopilot computer. Will be done free of charge for those who ordered full self-driving.

and in Dec. in a thread on this subject referred to cars built as far back as late 2016. So you are right, threads like this are just FUD. The OP of this one posted a screencap that contradicted his premise. #SMH

 

[dhanson865]

It definitely helps cash flow even if it's not recognized yet. They have the cash, they're using it. Weren't they weeks away from bankruptcy not too long ago?

Based on Depak Ahuja's comments on a call a couple of years ago my understanding is that the money is set aside in a different account and isn't being used for operations (or any other category). It's just sitting in an account somewhere.

 

[mb300sd]

$10,000 is not nearly enough to cover the over $50,000 I've spend on aftermarket upgrades the car I have based on the expectation that they will be able to swap out AP2.0 for AP3. Sure, some parts can be swapped out but I probably spent hundreds of hours installing them and that labor ain't cheap. September 2017 wasn't that long ago and they have been promising FSD to buyers for quite a while before that.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Based on Depak Ahuja's comments on a call a couple of years ago my understanding is that the money is set aside in a different account and isn't being used for operations (or any other category). It's just sitting in an account somewhere.

1) That affects cashflow

2) Now Tesla have defined FSD deliverables, its reasonable to presume they can recognize revenue. Certainly for people this year who paid for FSD on top of AP (since they actually gain functionality). And by Q4 for people who paid for FSD with EAP, once they start delivering some extra functionality

3) As Tesla recognize FSD revenue for people who will need HW3 upgrade, they would be required to put aside an accounting provision for the future coat of upgrading the compute engine to HW3.

 

[OPRCE]

Do you realize that the entire premise of your post is contradicted by the first line of your screencap?

The question whether HW2.0 owners may end up not being supported/upgraded for FSD they already paid for is based on the pretty adamant statements attributed to Tesla Engineering in Fremont, not the outcome in one individual case, in which an exception was perhaps made.

At the very least there is a severe communications problem if customers are having to confront this type of misinfo liable to cause an ulcer.

In any case let's hope Tesla do the right thing at the end of the day here.

 

[PunchIT]

Many people spent over $100,000 on the car based on the statement that the car was capable of FSD. Many would've never bought the car to begin with but the FSD was a deciding factor and we bought 2 AP 2.0 vehicles. A $3000 refund isn't enough to make things right.

DUH! I too bought two Teslas. So that if one breaks, the other can come pick me up. Double DUH!!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

DUH! I too bought two Teslas. So that if one breaks, the other can come pick me up. Double DUH!!

Actually, we've bought eight over the past three years. The first one was AP1 which we sold shortly after AP2 came out.

Fortunately none of them have ever broken down.

 

[Cheburashka]

Unfortunately that's not consistent with what the FaceBook post of Hkwinger Aaron reports: he was told "Tesla will only support FSD on HW2.5 vehicles" and "Fremont Engineering confirmed FSD will only be available on HW2.5 and beyond."

So it sounds like Tesla may soon be coming out with an announcement that they after all won't [be able to] honour their contract with HW2.0 & FSD customers.

It's another example of Tesla sales incompetence.

Salesperson made *sugar* up because they were too lazy to figure out how to add it or didn't care. Called the mythical "engineering" in Fremont to confirm.

BTW, engineering does not even get to make the call on whether to upgrade or sell FSD package on AP 2.0 cars.

Salespeople make *sugar* up or lie all the time. Just keep asking different people until you get the answer you like.

 

[OPRCE]

It's another example of Tesla sales incompetence.

Salesperson made *sugar* up because they were too lazy to figure out how to add it or didn't care. Called the mythical "engineering" in Fremont to confirm.

BTW, engineering does not even get to make the call on whether to upgrade or sell FSD package on AP 2.0 cars.

Salespeople make *sugar* up or lie all the time. Just keep asking different people until you get the answer you like.

I dunno, TBH it sounds a bit more elaborate than the usual fob-off story ... but maybe they are just getting more inventive at spinning us yarns?