What is your budget for the Model lll?

[Red Sage]

To get the thread back on topic...

Ah! A very good point indeed. My apologies for aiding the derailment to other, completely unrelated venues for the 'train of thought'. But... Just one more, mmm'kay?

If the car sells a lot, people will make parts for it. That's just how things work.

Correctomundo! In fact, I wrote above, "Something tells me that auto parts stores will go out of their way to learn what breaks on Tesla Motors vehicles, contact their suppliers, and make sure they have plenty of them on hand... Just in case. Just like they do with everything else."

 

[MassModel3]

But the Model S isn't a $35000 car. Parts are scarce because it's an expensive fairly rare car just like a Lamborghini or Ferrari. If the car sells a lot, people will make parts for it. That's just how things work.

Except for the most important part of what is essentially a computer on wheels.... the electronics. Tesla builds a vast majority of its electrical components in-house. If a circuit board fails that is only available from Tesla, will outside service centers be able to buy that part in bulk and replace the part quickly, or will it be a special order part from Tesla, or will Tesla need to replace the part at a service center because they won't sell it to third-parties? In fact, would your local garage even want the liability of touching the electronics in a Tesla?

All questions that will only be answered with time, and not until long after the Model 3 rolls out.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Except for the most important part of what is essentially a computer on wheels.... the electronics. Tesla builds a vast majority of its electrical components in-house. If a circuit board fails that is only available from Tesla, will outside service centers be able to buy that part in bulk and replace the part quickly, or will it be a special order part from Tesla, or will Tesla need to replace the part at a service center because they won't sell it to third-parties? In fact, would your local garage even want the liability of touching the electronics in a Tesla?

All questions that will only be answered with time, and not until long after the Model 3 rolls out.

While Tesla has been the car company to break the paradigms so far, to achieve mass market saturation, do they fall back to the pack in some ways with the Model 3? Do they partner with suppliers? Or did the Falcon Wing Door fiasco on the Model X leave a bad taste in their mouth?

I guess we won't know until 2017 some time.....

 

[Trev Page]

While Tesla has been the car company to break the paradigms so far, to achieve mass market saturation, do they fall back to the pack in some ways with the Model 3? Do they partner with suppliers? Or did the Falcon Wing Door fiasco on the Model X leave a bad taste in their mouth?

I guess we won't know until 2017 some time.....

Model X delays and delays are still very fresh in their minds. Elon has said many times recently that they'd never do a Model X type of car again due to too many features at once and causing massive delays. He's not saying this and still insisting Model 3 going into production in late 2017 and sticking his neck out for the executioner. I'm quite certain he's pushing engineering to keep it simple and easy to manufacture so they can absolutely meet that deadline.

During the the earnings call he reiterated that Model S was designed to work properly and they didn't take manufacturing into account much. Model 3 is all about taking what they have leaned from Model S and simplifying the design so it can be manufactured more simply, more cost effectively and faster.

Have you seen how many individual panels and assembly methods are in the Model S? Mass market car makers would never make a car like that.

All one has to do it watch a few YouTube videos of car manufacturing to see what goes into making a car body and compare it against some of Model S to see what I mean.

 

[Brad_SC]

A few weeks ago I spent some time researching the Model S's competitors. What I wanted to know was, "on average, what does the ___ feature cost on a competitor vs the Model S?" Naturally, it's not all Apples-to-Apples, but after completing my research I was able to complete the same research on the Model ≡'s (presumed) competitors. I took the ratios I learned from the Model S vs its competitors and factored that against the average cost of the same features for the Model ≡.

Naturally, some features we are used to in the Model S just don't exist (at least not identically) in cars that it competes with, and similarly, we might want/expect for some of these features to be available in the Model ≡, but it's competitors just didn't have some of them (so the data is only as accurate as I could make it). That being said, I researched the features that are important to me, and the data follows (the first number is the extrapolated average, the second number is my expectation of its real price on a Model ≡).

Model ≡ Base Price: $35,000
Expanded Paint Color Choices: $329/$500
Panoramic Sunroof: $875/$1,000
AWD: $3,975/$5,000
Autopilot: $1,412/$2,500

Just to clarify, some of these features are "best match possible" configurations. As mentioned previously, some of these features don't exist (identically) in the competitor vehicles.

I expect the Destination and Documentation Fees and Taxes will be calculated the same as it is for the other Tesla Models.

My Budget for the Model ≡ is $48,590, as this is what I expect that my desired features (+ dest and doc + taxes) will cost. I did not figure in any Rebates or Tax Credits, as I calculate my budget on "known incomes and expenses," not "hopeful windfalls and wishful thinking."

Who knows what I will actually be willing to pay when the real options and prices present themselves.

 

[Brad_SC]

I suppose I should add $2,000 + the associated taxes to my budget, as I expect the Dual Charger will still cost that much on the Model ≡.

 

[S3XY]

I suppose I should add $2,000 + the associated taxes to my budget, as I expect the Dual Charger will still cost that much on the Model ≡.

I've seen some people who bought the second charger say that they rarely use it and have second thoughts about getting it. I'm sure a few will chime in now and will say they couldn't do without it. But you should research how often you might use it and for those times you would, would you have been okay with the slower charging time anyway?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I've seen some people who bought the second charger say that they rarely use it and have second thoughts about getting it. I'm sure a few will chime in now and will say they couldn't do without it. But you should research how often you might use it and for those times you would, would you have been okay with the slower charging time anyway?

Not even sure if they will even offer Dual Charger for Model 3 given the hidden option in the Model X.

 

[Brad_SC]

I question the Dual Charger more than I let-on. In reality, I work from home... Daily commute = 20 foot walk down my hallway. My wife's office is about 2 miles from our house. We travel a few times a year on extended trips, only one of those 2-3 trips is long enough to use a Supercharger (or 5). Could I live without the Dual Chargers? Yes. But I would appreciate the benefit, and probably increase my travels if I did have it. Additionally, it's probably good for resale value.

 

[MP3Mike]

I suppose I should add $2,000 + the associated taxes to my budget, as I expect the Dual Charger will still cost that much on the Model ≡.

My guess is the Model 3 will be more like the Model S. It will come with a 48A charger, but when the car is built you will have the option to replace it with a 72A charger for $1,000. (It simplifies things, and reduces space usage, by not having to leave room for a second unit.)

 

[doubeld]

Why would the overcomplicate things by making that an option? Why not just 48A for everyone, no option available. For a mass-market car, that's getting pretty technical that only a few people will understand what it's for or need. I doubt there will be an option. How many L2 >60A chargers are there out there?

 

[Brad_SC]

My guess is the Model 3 will be more like the Model S. It will come with a 48A charger, but when the car is built you will have the option to replace it with a 72A charger for $1,000. (It simplifies things, and reduces space usage, by not having to leave room for a second unit.)

Generally, I like this approach. Build-to-order, only one charger per vehicle; 48A standard with an upgrade option to get whatever is appropriate to achieve full Supercharger capability on the Model ≡. Still just one charger per vehicle.

 

[tga]

Generally, I like this approach. Build-to-order, only one charger per vehicle; 48A standard with an upgrade option to get whatever is appropriate to achieve full Supercharger capability on the Model ≡. Still just one charger per vehicle.

Onboard charger isn't involved in Supercharging. When Supercharging, the onboard charger(s) are completely bypassed.

 

[Brad_SC]

Onboard charger isn't involved in Supercharging. When Supercharging, the onboard charger(s) are completely bypassed.

Really? I did not know this? Are you messing with me? Am I trying to spend $2,000 + Tax for no good reason? HAHAHA

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Really? I did not know this? Are you messing with me? Am I trying to spend $2,000 + Tax for no good reason? HAHAHA

True story. That's why SC's have the ability to charge so fast. It's straight DC and you don't have to worry about the onboard chargers.

Honestly, if they give you a single 48A charger onboard, it should be enough to recoup your daily commute in around 2-ish hours' time overnight.

You'd just have to plan a little better if you were going to go on a long trip and wanted to "range charge" at the house before heading out.

 

[Ryan H]

What is the charging medium used for 48 amps? Does NEMA 14-50 work with it?

 

[tga]

Really? I did not know this? Are you messing with me? Am I trying to spend $2,000 + Tax for no good reason? HAHAHA

A supercharger is essentially a stack of 12 Model S/X chargers, with the outputs wired in parallel, feeding HVDC to two charging stations. The "Supercharger hardware" in the car is basically just contactors that switch the power feed from the input of the on-board charger (if AC charging) to the output of the on-board charger/input of the battery (if DC supercharging).

- - - Updated - - -

What is the charging medium used for 48 amps? Does NEMA 14-50 work with it?

You need a 60A circuit to draw the full 48A. You'd need a hardwired HPWC (or J1772 station). With a 14-50, you're limited to 40A charging.

There is a NEMA 14-60 outlet, but they're not common. In theory, Tesla could build a new UMC with a 14-60 adapter, but I doubt it.

 

[S3XY]

Really? I did not know this? Are you messing with me? Am I trying to spend $2,000 + Tax for no good reason? HAHAHA

It's true. The onboard chargers are for AC charging and the SC's are DC. That's why I mentioned that you first need to determine how often you would even be able to use a second charger. And then when you do have the opportunity would you even require the faster charging? Could you instead just locate a nearby SC?

 

[Az_Rael]

It's true. The onboard chargers are for AC charging and the SC's are DC. That's why I mentioned that you first need to determine how often you would even be able to use a second charger. And then when you do have the opportunity would you even require the faster charging? Could you instead just locate a nearby SC?

Would getting the supercharger option enable DC fast charging from other stations (with an adapter) I wonder? So if supercharging ends up being a paid option, would I have to buy it to be able to use Chademo, SAE Combo, etc? Or is that a separate option entirely?

 

[MP3Mike]

Would getting the supercharger option enable DC fast charging from other stations (with an adapter) I wonder? So if supercharging ends up being a paid option, would I have to buy it to be able to use Chademo, SAE Combo, etc? Or is that a separate option entirely?

That is pretty much how it works on the Model S. If you got a Model S 60 w/o Supercharging you couldn't use DC fast charging from CHAdeMO. (Which is currently the only non-Supercharger DC fast charging that is supported.) If you want to use CHAdeMO you had to either pay to enable Supercharging ($2,500 after the fact), or pay for the "Fast Charging Onboard Hardware Activation" which is $1,900.

What I don't know is if you enabled just CHAdeMO and then decided you wanted Supercharging would they charge you the $600 difference, $1,100 ($500 extra as a change fee), or would they charge you the full $2,500.

So it seems that the DC fast charging hardware costs $1,400 and the Supercharger access costs $600. (The extra $500 is essentially a change fee for doing it after the initial car order/manufacturing.)