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Hmm, this triggered a question in my mind. Which is easier to swap a 800kWh battery or to swap tractors? If we are talking about an autonomous truck, there is no driver to move from one truck to another. It seems easy enough that one truck drops off a trailer as another truck picks it up. The important thing is that the trailer continues along its journey with minimal delay.Trucks without drivers that pull into a battery swap station and pull out, fully charged (well... swapped) 5 minutes later and can be on the road like that 23 hours a day (net).
Let's suppose the the retail price of the 800kWh battery is $200k @ $250/kWh. The rest of the tractor is maybe $50k for a total price of $250k. So why swap out 80% of the value of a truck just to keep 20% of the value of the truck connected to the trailer?
It seems the simple solution is just to swap autonomous tractors. Anyway, just a theory.
During the transition the tractors don't all have to be autonomous. Electric tractors with drivers or autonomous tractors without drivers can take a trailer one leg of the route, transfer the trailer to a diesel tractor with a driver for the next leg. As more electric tractors become available, the next leg could be electrified.
I wanted to do a bit more research on the Ioniq's battery before answering, and this probably isn't the thread for this. It looks like someone on the forum just started an Ioniq fast charging thread:
Thoughts on the Hyundai Ioniq DC charging speed?
The AC charger appears to be a little slower than Tesla's, but the fastest DC charging available is only 100KW. We can't know for sure what the higher power charging will bring. According to the above thread, the OP thinks Hyundai is pushing the batteries harder than Tesla.
It is possible Hyundai is just pushing the battery pack harder than Tesla and it might lead to long term cell damage.
In any case, this should be a discussion about the Tesla semi.
What if Tesla built a semi tractor trailer based on powerpacks:
50,000 lbs net load / 3,575 lbs per power pack yields ~3 MWh with an AC delivery rate of 700 kW. DC would be higher and they already have DC-DC converters built in.
A 40' trailer would span 5 foot parking spaces, so it could supply 5 vehicles @ 120 kW each, or supply 10 vehicles at 60 (both sides of trailer).
Time to 0% SOC ranges from 4 hours to days, depending on usage. Starts out with drivers swapping trailers, and later goes full autonomous.
Costs:
3 MWh is around $3,000 depending where you live (10 cents per kWh). Powerpacks are 250/ kWh retail, say 200 internal pricing, $600,000 in packs, $12,000 in trailer (could be reused, but let's be conservative),5000 cycles = 4.1 cents per kW. Range from solarplant, say 4 hours round trip (could also ship by train) 4*$25 = 100 driver cost, 3.3 cents per kW 7.4 cents total. Leaves 2.6 cents per kW/ $78 per cycle for generation and tractor.
Bonuses:
No infrastructure cost to deploy: can add themanywhere there is space in the time it takes to drivethem there.
Flexibility for usage demands: holiday weekends add more units on interstates
Local events: add more chargers on routes to/ from(SpaceX launch, annual meeting)
Independent of grid: charge during an outage/ post natural disaster.
With feedback and tracking from vehicles, locations can be added in near real time with new spots fedback to nav system.
And totally off grid...
The powerpacks would only cover 50% of a 40 foot trailer. The additional space could serve as restrooms or storage for spare parts.
(For super annoyance, trailer sides could serve as digital billboards)
50,000 lbs net load / 3,575 lbs per power pack yields ~3 MWh with an AC delivery rate of 700 kW. DC would be higher and they already have DC-DC converters built in.
A 40' trailer would span 5 foot parking spaces, so it could supply 5 vehicles @ 120 kW each, or supply 10 vehicles at 60 (both sides of trailer).
Time to 0% SOC ranges from 4 hours to days, depending on usage. Starts out with drivers swapping trailers, and later goes full autonomous.
Costs:
3 MWh is around $3,000 depending where you live (10 cents per kWh). Powerpacks are 250/ kWh retail, say 200 internal pricing, $600,000 in packs, $12,000 in trailer (could be reused, but let's be conservative),5000 cycles = 4.1 cents per kW. Range from solarplant, say 4 hours round trip (could also ship by train) 4*$25 = 100 driver cost, 3.3 cents per kW 7.4 cents total. Leaves 2.6 cents per kW/ $78 per cycle for generation and tractor.
Bonuses:
No infrastructure cost to deploy: can add themanywhere there is space in the time it takes to drivethem there.
Flexibility for usage demands: holiday weekends add more units on interstates
Local events: add more chargers on routes to/ from(SpaceX launch, annual meeting)
Independent of grid: charge during an outage/ post natural disaster.
With feedback and tracking from vehicles, locations can be added in near real time with new spots fedback to nav system.
And totally off grid...
The powerpacks would only cover 50% of a 40 foot trailer. The additional space could serve as restrooms or storage for spare parts.
(For super annoyance, trailer sides could serve as digital billboards)
What if they build charging trucks that charge the semis like air tankers refuel jets. Also, slightly off topic, but what about a "virtual tow hook" mode where your second tesla is virtually linked to the tesla in front so that you can throw all your stuff in the model 3/pickup and drive in the leading car with your passengers. Would be moot once full autonomy is here, but as a transition it seems the nhtsa would allow this first....????
IMHO, more relevant than you think. Imagine if the Semis could communicate to each other and Caravan a fleet of Semi's together for highway driving. So you could have one driver in front (for legal reasons), and have 3-4 Tesla Semi's linked to each other for an extended caravan. The lead Semi would require more juice than the others, but the following semis would save on kWh by drafting the entire fleet.
If and when they get to a rest stop, there may be a waiting group of CDL drivers who would hop into the "empty" Semi's and maneuver them around to re-charge, park, etc... and later maneuver them into a caravan again when they are ready to go.
OK. So the goal is to make *everything* electric, right? Now, for most applications of a semi, making the tractor electric is sufficient. But for refrigerated cargos, most of them are refrigerated by separate diesel engines. So I'm thinking battery/solar powered "reefer" shipping container or trailer.
Wishful thinking, perhaps, but really damn simple and goes with the *everything* electric principle.
I have like the idea of an electric trailer for sometime. The could even work with diesel tractors equipped with an electronic controller. This would immediately provide regenerative braking and a power boost to minimize consumption of fuel. Any power needed for the load is also supplied.
I'd also like a reefer in the frunk.
I had another unlikely idea about charging/swapping. What if instead of swapping the batteries, or the whole tractor, it was just the "Skateboard" that swaps, and the cab is a separate unit that transfers from one skateboard to the next, kind of like the trucks that pick up big construction dumpsters. It would be good for the drivers, and seems like it might set them up nicely for a future where the driver is not needed at all. Trucks on shorter runs with just operate like normal trucks and charge at their destinations.
I like the idea about a caravan being driven/monitored by one human driver. In more complex traffic such as highways with many exits, other traffic would however get squeezed. Imagine trying to get off the highway when merely 3 big trucks go nose-to-tail together in any proximity to you. For long distance remote area stuff such as in Australia and Africa where they have longer truck trains, perfect, and likely safer.
Also a mobile charging station makes sense. More off-grid in nature, can pop up anywhere. At events for instance. With a good on-board lift system, the truck itself would not even take any parking spaces, but provide a roof for parked cars being charged. While it's there, unfold the huge solar roof so you make the most of the sun available, and provide welcome shade to the charging cars (saving them precious aircon energy in the process). Top off a long truck with batteries, see much much will fit. Once at a location, the mobile charing station may well be helped out by an electrician to get some power grid attachment. Even if it can't keep up with discharge rate over 24h, it will extend the truck's stay. Really the tractor can still be made detachable to save some on resources and keep the driver mobile to move other charge stations around or carry out more medial transport chores.
Also a mobile charging station makes sense. More off-grid in nature, can pop up anywhere. At events for instance. With a good on-board lift system, the truck itself would not even take any parking spaces, but provide a roof for parked cars being charged. While it's there, unfold the huge solar roof so you make the most of the sun available, and provide welcome shade to the charging cars (saving them precious aircon energy in the process). Top off a long truck with batteries, see much much will fit. Once at a location, the mobile charing station may well be helped out by an electrician to get some power grid attachment. Even if it can't keep up with discharge rate over 24h, it will extend the truck's stay. Really the tractor can still be made detachable to save some on resources and keep the driver mobile to move other charge stations around or carry out more medial transport chores.
Muaddid
Member
If we are supposed to see an autonomous LA-NYC before the end of the year, one thing is currently missing from the superchargers : the snake-charger !
Maybe the upgrade in power will come with the automatization of the pluging-in step and that would be the "something else you don't want to miss". After all it is one of the necessary step to full autonomy and the tesla network...
Maybe the upgrade in power will come with the automatization of the pluging-in step and that would be the "something else you don't want to miss". After all it is one of the necessary step to full autonomy and the tesla network...
So, a trailer made of batteries as a replacement for those emergency generators they truck in for county fairs and disaster areas? That's a great idea. Drive it in, park it for the weekend or the week, drive in a new one when it runs out. I've seen small-scale versions of that already, but not a semi-sized one.
So what about a possible S refresh? I'm thinking interior design, the fruit of the work of the ex-Volvo guy, adding more Nordic style minimalistic luxury to further distance S from 3.
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I'd love to see that, but I don't see it as a big event sort of announcement. But an interior redesign definitely needs to happen.
I expect something will be done with the S and possibly X early next year to keep sales up after they end the free supercharging for life. They might just lower prices, but they might have some kind of new interior or something planned. I doubt we'll see much more than the 75 go to a 90 this year.
Every time I see the title of this thread I want to quip "a free puppy for all!"
Every time I see the title of this thread I want to quip "a free puppy for all!"
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