Why Does EAP Brake So Late When Stopping In Traffic???

[THEbuz]

NEW 2023 Model Y Came with EAP for 30 Days

Using AP/EAP in city traffic on long multi-lane roads with lots of red lights. EAP always stops, but it often brakes so late when there is a vehicle directly in front of me that I’m worried some moron behind me will crash into the back of me if he/she is not paying attention. This doesn’t really happen (late braking) when the vehicle in front of me is already stopped at the red light; it seems to be only when the vehicle immediately in front of me is slowing for the red light ahead of me.

QUESTION: How can I adjust this late braking with AP/EAP????? I don’t see a setting for that.

 

[Tam]

NEW 2023 Model Y Came with EAP for 30 Days

Using AP/EAP in city traffic on long multi-lane roads with lots of red lights. EAP always stops, but it often brakes so late when there is a vehicle directly in front of me that I’m worried some moron behind me will crash into the back of me if he/she is not paying attention. This doesn’t really happen (late braking) when the vehicle in front of me is already stopped at the red light; it seems to be only when the vehicle immediately in front of me is slowing for the red light ahead of me.

QUESTION: How can I adjust this late braking with AP/EAP????? I don’t see a setting for that.

The AP was first introduced in 2014 and after 8 years, no, there's no user configuration for early braking.

But I do agree that there should be.

 

[Big Earl]

Super annoying, isn’t it? I disable AP every time I approach a red light and modulate the regen myself for a smooth stop.

 

[THEbuz]

Does anyone know if FSD/Beta does this also? I haven’t noticed it amidst all of the YouTube videos I’ve watched of FSD Beta’rs out there.

 

[Tam]

Does anyone know if FSD/Beta does this also? I haven’t noticed it amidst all of the YouTube videos I’ve watched of FSD Beta’rs out there.

I have both FSD and FSD beta. It's very crude robotic behavior, and I don't see any difference in the poor ability to brake early and smoothly. It's only been 8 years from the first AP so you might want to give it another 8 years before re-evaluating this issue.

 

[Watts_Up]

For city driving or curvy roads, when using EAP/FSD, I constantly adjust the speed,
with the right button on the steering wheel, to slow down and accelerate smoothly,
otherwise the car acts like a beginner car driver.

 

[drtimhill]

Does anyone know if FSD/Beta does this also? I haven’t noticed it amidst all of the YouTube videos I’ve watched of FSD Beta’rs out there.

It doesnt. FSD beta and AP/EAP are totally different stacks.

 

[derotam]

Super annoying, isn’t it? I disable AP every time I approach a red light and modulate the regen myself for a smooth stop.

Yep, I disengage also.

It doesnt. FSD beta and AP/EAP are totally different stacks.

While they may be different stacks, in regards to the OP's issue, yes it does the same thing in FSD Beta, super annoying.

 

[Twiglett]

FSDb is the master late braker. It annoys the heck outa me. It uses actual brakes much more often than regen which I find ridiculous.
I do what @Watts_Up does and dial down the speed, but as FSDb is also really bad a slowing down I usually end up disengaging and reengaging when its stopped.

 

[bsf29]

I always find it interesting how there are different experiences. My wife’s M3P with EAP stops very smooth. It rarely has to use brakes. My M3 with FSDb waits too long and has to use brakes and rarely uses all regen. Similar with corners where the M3P takes minor curves at set speed vs FSDb slows down and I have to accelerate to maintain speed (I like to corner). In my experience FSDb is not as nice of a drive. Both cars have following distance set at 6, but FSDb doesn’t honor the setting. In our area people are not as aggressive but most are driving +5 over the speed limit. I sometimes change it to 4 for some of our highway driving where it is more congested.

 

[cbdream99]

I am on FSDb 10.69.2.4, the city braking is much more smoother than previous releases, I don't feel as much slamming as before, and ran yellow/even red lights when it cannot stop in time; also check your regen settings - is it standard or low?

 

[EVRider-FL]

Try adjusting the following distance and see if that helps.

 

[drtimhill]

Yep, I disengage also.



While they may be different stacks, in regards to the OP's issue, yes it does the same thing in FSD Beta, super annoying.

Well it doesnt for me .. the car generally approaches a red light and stops appropriately.

It's also worth noting that AP/EAP was never really intended to be used on streets with traffic signals anyway. It's for highway use.

 

[Twiglett]

Well it doesnt for me .. the car generally approaches a red light and stops appropriately.

It's also worth noting that AP/EAP was never really intended to be used on streets with traffic signals anyway. It's for highway use.

My favorite is when FSDb overtakes the "parked" car in the line at a red light, then accelerates hard before braking even harder for the same red light.
This is much more of a problem of FSDb not taking into account any other cars waiting at the light.
If there are only one or two then its fine, if there are maybe ten or more its like FSDb is planning on stopping right at the light itself, not behind all the other cars, then has to brake hard to fix its mistake.
Planning based on anything more than 50-100yards ahead is a real issue, especially on roads that have >40mph speed limits. As the speed limits increase the problem gets worse.
On 60mph roads where I would be slowing down for the red light ahead, FSDb is still going strong seemingly oblivious to the red light.
I hit the camera report button every time that happens.

 

[RTPEV]

I have a feeling the distance the car is looking ahead is much shorter than you or I look. It's simply not paying attention to those stopped cars up yonder, even though they are stopped and we are approaching at 60mph. Agreed, it's very nerve-wracking and manual intervention is typically warranted. This feels to me like another area where radar would have a benefit...I realize the issues with avoiding false positives when detecting stationary objects ahead with radar, but a blended approach where the radar throws up a red flag and vision confirms seems reasonable. But of course then you have those false positives still getting through which results in Phantom Braking, so you wind up with the opposite problem.

 

[SPF]

Simple answer: because it doesn’t work. Tesla got rid of radar and uss only to save money. Not because of some magical “Tesla Vision!” Those that paid $6000.00 or more for EAP should get their money back or get new hardware installed for no extra charge. EAP does not work.

 

[THEbuz]

I have a feeling the distance the car is looking ahead is much shorter than you or I look. It's simply not paying attention to those stopped cars up yonder, even though they are stopped and we are approaching at 60mph. Agreed, it's very nerve-wracking and manual intervention is typically warranted. This feels to me like another area where radar would have a benefit...I realize the issues with avoiding false positives when detecting stationary objects ahead with radar, but a blended approach where the radar throws up a red flag and vision confirms seems reasonable. But of course then you have those false positives still getting through which results in Phantom Braking, so you wind up with the opposite problem.

When using AP and approaching a red light at 60mph with stopped cars clearly ahead. I find myself manually manipulating the following distance, setting it to 7 so that my TESLA stops less suddenly than it otherwise would with the following distance set to 2.

 

[2101Guy]

I used it during about an hour + of stop and go traffic backed up on the interstate over the weekend. At 5-10mph stop and go? It was perfectly fine. When traffic would speed up to 45mph then slow back down to a stop or to a crawl? Would more often than not slow down VERY abruptly to the point where the wife yelled out "STOP DOING THAT. WHY ARE YOU BRAKING SO HARD?!?!" So I turned it off and drove myself

and I was not about to do the Elon phanboy detailed explanation to her of "well you see, it is working as intended has nothing to do with lack of USS and lack of radar and single stack and DOJO and and ML, and V11 Single stack will fix all of that" yammering.

To the actual non phanboy customer, it either works well or it doesnt.

 

[THEbuz]

I used it during about an hour + of stop and go traffic backed up on the interstate over the weekend. At 5-10mph stop and go? It was perfectly fine. When traffic would speed up to 45mph then slow back down to a stop or to a crawl? Would more often than not slow down VERY abruptly to the point where the wife yelled out "STOP DOING THAT. WHY ARE YOU BRAKING SO HARD?!?!" So I turned it off and drove myself

and not, was not about to do the Elon phanboy detailed explanation to her of "well you see, it is working as intended has nothing to do with lack of USS and lack of radar and single stack and DOJO and and ML, and V11 Single stack will fix all of that" yammering.

To the actual non phanboy customer, it either works well or it doesnt.

Fair point.

 

[DrChaos]

NEW 2023 Model Y Came with EAP for 30 Days

Using AP/EAP in city traffic on long multi-lane roads with lots of red lights. EAP always stops, but it often brakes so late when there is a vehicle directly in front of me that I’m worried some moron behind me will crash into the back of me if he/she is not paying attention. This doesn’t really happen (late braking) when the vehicle in front of me is already stopped at the red light; it seems to be only when the vehicle immediately in front of me is slowing for the red light ahead of me.

My hypothesis: AP/EAP is designed primarily for freeway traffic. Probabilistically on freeway, it's more likely the car ahead of you that's going particularly slow will speed back up again as there aren't lights. So the behavior is more optimal on freeway but unnatural on roads. It's not smart enough to understand the various conditions and automatic adjustments people will do subconsciously. The FSDb, particularly with neural network based policy planners (how to drive), might eventually get better at this.

The other aspect is that without radar there is more of a latency until it can figure out the relative speed of the vehicles ahead of it. Humans have better visual resolution and stereo. Driver assist with radar gets immediate physical speeds from doppler effect and can use them.

None of the automated systems are as smooth as a good, awake human driver.