Why don't people compare range while comparing with ICE cars?

[SageBrush]

Only a few years ago new constructions were building off street parking, as in a garage door/drive under a townhouse and the
width of the drive is no wider than where a car would parallel park.
Easy right?
Until you find out that all politics is local, specially zoning, and the other 99% cry foul and just like that, getting a permit for off street parking is near impossible.

Reminder to self: stay far, far away from a certain city in PA

 

[deonb]

some 50 million americans are NOT "most people".

Fine, so after Tesla sells 5 million cars to 10% of them, then let's ask "what's next".

I also can't use a Tesla for all my driving needs. I sometimes need to be able to pull a 20'000 lbs travel trailer. It would be sweet if a Tesla could do that, but it can't, and frankly I don't want Tesla to pivot to my specific needs when there is a path of very little resistance for them to sell their next 10 million vehicles to people who are ready to use them today.

If the demographic doesn't fit you - sorry for you, but you are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.

And if you REALLY want one earlier, you can move somewhere else where your housing accommodates your vehicle needs. That's what I did.

 

[Barklikeadog]

You already said that it's not your own property, so you're contradicting yourself already. And if you're already walking several blocks, there may well already be a charger in your area. Not like either of us would know - me because I don't know exactly where you live, and you because you adamantly refuse to actually find out any specific details, and instead prefer just to assert "Impossible!" without even asking.

Contradiction? I'm talking about several different scenarios. Parking is situational.

As for declaring something impossible, I'm only telling you what city zoning has decided. Plenty of news articles are written about this.
If the city doesn't allow permits to install chargers, and has no plans to change that anytime soon, then I would say someone installing a charger on their street is currently impossible.

 

[KarenRei]

Contradiction? I'm talking about several different scenarios. Parking is situational.

As for declaring something impossible, I'm only telling you what city zoning has decided. Plenty of news articles are written about this.
If the city doesn't allow permits to install chargers, and has no plans to change that anytime soon, then I would say someone installing a charger on their street is currently impossible.

Ask.

I really have no more words to you than that. Call the city and ask what residents in your area should do about EV charging and whether, if the city won't build a charger near you, if you could pay for it.

If you won't bother to do that, then you have nothing else to say in this thread either, being unwilling to do even the most basic legwork concerning your assertion. Because believe me, anyone who takes an interest to the Model 3 absolutely will do their legwork to find out.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Ask.

I really have no more words to you than that. Call the city and ask what residents in your area should do about EV charging and whether, if the city won't build a charger near you, if you could pay for it.

If you won't bother to do that, then you have nothing else to say in this thread either, being unwilling to do even the most basic legwork concerning your assertion. Because believe me, anyone who takes an interest to the Model 3 absolutely will do their legwork to find out.

The residents do pay for it, Approx $4000 with a several month wait.

Ask?

Notwithstanding the provisions of this subsection (3), effective with the adoption of the Ordinance adding this subsection (3)(d), the Parking Authority shall designate no additional electric vehicle parking spaces, pending Council’s review of the impact of these spaces on overall parking availability and enactment of further legislation. During such moratorium on new spaces, all existing Electric Vehicle Parking spaces shall be designated as exclusively reserved for Electric Vehicles only from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., and non-electric vehicles shall be authorized to park in electric vehicle parking spaces for no more than two (2) hours between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.


No means no. The people who put in for permits went to the council meeting and "asked" that they obtain them. Denied.
As for street charging, that is basically off the table. The pro-EV representatives are now focused on parking garages and
charging stations. They don't want to tick off everyone else.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Ask.

I really have no more words to you than that. Call the city and ask what residents in your area should do about EV charging and whether, if the city won't build a charger near you, if you could pay for it.

If you won't bother to do that, then you have nothing else to say in this thread either, being unwilling to do even the most basic legwork concerning your assertion. Because believe me, anyone who takes an interest to the Model 3 absolutely will do their legwork to find out.

Um.... beg the city to be allowed to pay for a charger so I can get an EV at place xy...wtf is this guy smoking?
This is a car we`re talking about not a close relative or something. No one would bother to do such a thing for a car, even less pay for it....A normal person would simply get a classic gasoline car at this point.

 

[four-walling]

The range of my bladder is about 300 miles, whether I am in an ICE or EV.

 

[gowthamn]

The range of my bladder is about 300 miles, whether I am in an ICE or EV.

Peeing takes 5 minutes, but charging takes 45 mins .

 

[gowthamn]

Speed of charging is another advantage for ICE, especially for people without home charging and for people who do long distance travel.

 

[SpiceWare]

Anyway, where am I supposed to have that charger installed? At a lamppost out in the street?

Fully Charged episode about retrofitting lamp posts for EV charging. The unit shown was developed in Berlin.

 

[ThosEM]

At some point, the question:
"How can I get where I'm going without spewing CO2 into the atmosphere and wrecking our environment?"
becomes more important than the question
"how can I get where I'm going in the minimum time/effort; my time is worth more than our environment?"
Electric cars really do answer that first question well.
Their purveyors also make a value judgement about the second question:
Transportation needn't be more convenient nor less costly than by internal combustion, to be worth the cost.
Suck it up and enjoy doing your part with a really interesting and impressive car from Tesla.

 

[voip-ninja]

What if I told you that even most solid middle class flats don`t have guaranteed private parking spots. And last time I checked most public parking spots on the street didn`t have charger spots.....

Too bad reality exists outside these forums, right?

So what are you proposing as a solution to the problem?

What range level would you be satisfied with considering that with even the best current charging technology restoring 500 miles of range would be something that would take 90 minutes and be hard on the battery?

This car is not the car for everyone, clearly something you don't quite understand.

 

[voip-ninja]

At some point, the question:
"How can I get where I'm going without spewing CO2 into the atmosphere and wrecking our environment?"
becomes more important than the question
"how can I get where I'm going in the minimum time/effort; my time is worth more than our environment?"
Electric cars really do answer that first question well.
Their purveyors also make a value judgement about the second question:
Transportation needn't be more convenient nor less costly than by internal combustion, to be worth the cost.
Suck it up and enjoy doing your part with a really interesting and impressive car from Tesla.

Keep on believing that Tesla is all about saving the planet when they are building cars for the 1% crowd. If that was really Tesla's overriding concern then they would be working their tails off to build a $20K car with a 150 mile range that would be in reach of the 90% of the population that could not afford even a $35,000 "base" model Tesla 3.

I have enough solar panels on my house to equal the benefit of about 5 Teslas or 10 hybrids. I put the panels on my house as a hedge against energy price inflation not out of some misguided sense that I'm going to make up for millions of other people's pollution and somehow save the planet from the terror of a 1C rise in annual temperature over the next 150 years.

Here's a news flash. Even if the US and Europe completely stopped all carbon output from our cars and factories the CO2 level is going to continue to go up over the next 50 years due to the activities of India, Africa and China who are going to continue buying cheap gas guzzling cars and generating power the cheapest way they can, usually with coal.

 

[four-walling]

Peeing takes 5 minutes, but charging takes 45 mins .

yeah, might as well get a room.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I see many articles comparing model 3 with BMW 3 series. But none compare the range. Why is that? A BMW 330i has I think 400 miles range. But Model 3 base has just 220. Also BMW has fast refueling time compared to model 3. And for people without a garage or for long distance travel, this is important.

I am not telling Model 3 is bad or anything. It has better features in the base model than the bmw, but the comparison should be done fairly.

In an ICE, nobody cares about the range as long as it is "good enough". People don't really put much value into a longer range car (that's why it's not separately listed and cars don't generally have a larger gas tank option).

The same general thing can apply to an EV and it's debate-able where that occurs. For me somewhere around 200 miles range is good enough (my current old ICE car only has 250 miles of range).

The difference with an EV is the larger battery gives you better performance, quicker charging, better longevity per mile. That's worth as much, if not more than the extra range.

 

[roblab]

That must be a nice world you live in where everyone can charge their car over night. Considering that most people don`t own a house and live in dense urban areas without private parking spots that`s utopic.

I completely understand your logic and that will definitely work for you.
But having a "low range" vehicle is a very big minus to the overall utility for most people, that`s a simple fact.
I have house/carport etc....and I´d still see the battery upgrade for the model 3 as mandatory for my use-pattern.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that most people living in crowded urban areas do NOT have vehicles, so they do NOT have to charge them at all. At present, they have buses, taxis, bicycles, subways, or they can walk, unlike where I live. Those that do have a car probably do have a designated parking spot, or can charge at work. Eventually the charging issues will work out.

Obviously, you are not in that group. We are still in the era where not everyone should own an electric vehicle. The question of charging ability still needs to be addressed first. This automatically means that home owners can buy Teslas before those that live in apartment complexes without access to charging.

 

[roblab]

Peeing takes 5 minutes, but charging takes 45 mins .

Going to the counter to buy a coffee and a sandwich, using the facilities, and walking back to the car takes more like a half hour, and charging takes about a half hour. Of course, I am only talking about my own experience, 130,000 miles over 5 years. I don't drive 300 miles at a jump, never did. More like 3 hours max, take a break, walk around.

Had a friend my age who liked to drive long stretches, grab something at a drive up, and keep on truckin' down the road. He died several years ago. Seems he had clots in his legs that ended up in his brain. So, there's that.

 

[Gtosnipey]

I will just say, as an American, this is the problem I find with us. We want things but don't want to do the work for them, and usually, don't want to pay for it. We all want healthier better food but are made there aren't 100 Whole Foods or Trader Joe's close to us or that the food is more expensive. We want to be better to the environment and not utilize fossil fuels for the gas guzzlers but don't want the inconvenience of having to spend a little extra time charging the car. If Tesla came out with a Solar charger for the Model 3 people would complain you couldn't charge it in the shade or at night lol. I'm sorry but charging a battery takes time, that's how the technology works. Overtime yes it improves, but that is not where we are at. Phone charging used to take a lot longer, and now many devices such as Apple and Samsung and Google have "fast charging" depending on the model and processor. Sometimes you have to sacrifice to get the things you want, or to be a better person. I can get a $5 shoe from China because really as an American I dont care enough about their horrible working conditions and wages to do anything about it. If all of a sudden we stopped paying people and immigrants $1 an hour to pick fruit and work on farms Bigmacs would cost $8 each and people would flip out. When it comes to Telsa and clean enegry or any of these movements, you have to be willing to sacrafice to get what you want.

I definitely understand that not all people have garages or houses, but I don't know what the solution is. I mean technically Amish people could complain that Telsa isn't making a Model 3 that accommodates their needs (no electricity). Ok that was a drastic analogy, but the point of having an electric car is having somewhere to charge it. Until "society" not Telsa is at the point where your local energy company has pay for use chargers around your state than there is not much you can do. I dont think it is Tesla's job to solve that.

I myself have a garage to charge and still am bouncing back and forth between the two options. To the guy above stating its Tesla's job to be working day and night to build a $20k car... sorry but no also not their job. Also, battery technology and the EV tech in general isn't at a price point to make them that cheap or they would. But slowly the price per kw is going down, but it doesn't happen over night. Telsa is doing their part and still making great cars. I have a number of gripes with them but you have to commend them on what they are doing right also.

@voip-ninja if you want to just complain and be negative about everything, then yes you should stop all the energy saving things you are doing because none of it matters because corporations pollute. And you should just eat Big Macs every day because sooner or later your body gets old and dies so why take care of it, and right down the rabbit hole you go. Instead be positive about the good steps you and Tesla are taking, and look forward to more in the future. If you want to complain and gripe to anyone it should be the ICE manufacturers. You can't yell at one of the only companies leading this charge into much cleaner energy and say they aren't doing enough when how many other companies aren't doing s#$t lol. Ok sorry for the rant

 

[Electroman]

Guys - OP is a troll. If you look at his post history you will understand that.

It is just plain common sense that higher range is a key enabler and a comparative metric between two EVs, but not against an ICE and an EV.

If Tesla somehow magically solves the problem for folks not having a garage, then the goal posts move to what happens to folks that don't have the money to buy a car !

I say, if you don't have a garage you are screwed atleast for now. Tesla cannot provide solutions for everyone when they are just getting out of the starting block.

 

[Runt8]

Keep on believing that Tesla is all about saving the planet when they are building cars for the 1% crowd. If that was really Tesla's overriding concern then they would be working their tails off to build a $20K car with a 150 mile range that would be in reach of the 90% of the population that could not afford even a $35,000 "base" model Tesla 3.

The average cost of a new car back in 2015 in the US was $33560. Average new car price zips 2.6% to $33,560
I guess that means, according to you, that 10% of the population is buying 50% of all of the vehicles sold.