My palm-horn works most of the time, as long as I can find the muscle memory to make it happen. Not sure if this is the same for others, but instead of a regular "honk", it sounds the horn in a rapid staccato fashion. I actually really like it, as it really grabs peoples attention. If only it was easy to use...
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Work in progress: stalks on 2021 Model S. (and optional round-y wheel)
- Thread starter rhuber
- Start date
FirstInTown
Member
You didn't see parts for the horn because IT'S A LIE. So sick of this sh$t and some getting away with it. Center horn not coming to those cars built over a year ago because the parts were never there.
I don't think s3xy buttons by themselves would be a good fix--I was thinking that somebody could make a stalk device that could use the same logic as the buttons to mimic and enable traditional stalk-operated signals...
...though after a while I realized that even that wouldn't be a great fix: half the advantage of the stalks is being able to cancel the auto cancellation of the turn signals, which still wouldn't be possible to do. Traditional stalks are just too good of a design. I'd hope that somebody at Tesla realizes that, but it sounds they might be doubling down on the buttons (which require more attention, offer less feedback, and eliminate a lot of the functionality as the traditional stalks).
Hey folks, just fyi (and no surprise, surely), I'm done with this project. I had sporadic motivation to work on it, and then I'd remember Elon is a crap person and lose motivation. This isn't politics, fwiw, I just dislike charlatans. Add to that how much I prefer my Rivian, and it is time to throw officially in the towel. If you are unhappy with the controls in the new S/X and want a round wheel and/or stalks, talk to the CEO of Tesla.
strider
Active Member
Hi @rhuber I completely understand. Any chance you could open source (maybe you already have?) your progress thus far and someone else could take it up? Maybe the Enhance Automotive folks? They have experience with interfacing with the car and decoding and sending CAN messages. Thank you for the work you've done and showing us what it possible.
I had a feeling this was coming. So sorry to hear this. Unfortunately for many of us, we cannot just walk away from our cars and switch to something else. My only hope is that when Tesla tries this same crap on the Model 3 and Y, that there is such an uproar that Tesla is forced to make a course correction and abandon this stupid interface.
And yes, can you at least help us by releasing what you have accomplished so that perhaps someone else can take over?
Pricedm
Member
When I drove a Rivian R1T, one thing I instantly noticed and was surprised/bothered by was how the round steering wheel blocked visibility of the center screen. Needs either a yoke or the screen repositioned so driver has unobstructed view of it. Sales rep/field "guide" said I wasn't the first to make this observation or comments. 5-9, no unusual driving position.
strider
Active Member
Interesting. I haven't even sat in a Rivian, but regarding Tesla, the Yoke is actually WIDER than the Hannshow wheel I am using. So the wheel is an IMPROVEMENT when it comes to center screen visibility.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Tesla might be bringing native normal steering wheel to Yoke cars, no mention of Stalks, source:
View attachment 774050
Tesla might be cracking on the yoke steering wheel and planning to offer an option for a regular round wheel
When Tesla introduced the controversial yoke steering wheel, CEO Elon Musk surprised many when he said that the automaker didn’t...electrek.co
If they go the "cheap way" and share parts with 3/Y then we get stalks, if they make brand new round wheel with the Yoke's awful buttons then our only hope is OP and the two companies he worked with
I ordered a Rivian last week, no stalks & round wheel - no buy, Tesla got time until I can convert my deposit to a purchase but as the above picture shows ... little to no faith that it will come to be
Yeah well we all know how that above rummer panned out :|
Super glad for my R1S order, sat in one couple of weeks back at their SoCal store, it is _very_ nice, and very roomy too.
Thank you @rhuber for your effort, time and innovation, hopefully Rivian will continue to deliver (both vehicles and software updates [ex, pin to drive would be great, but their auto leveling for camping is just *chef kiss*])
For folks needing Model X alternative, there's also the upcoming Volvo EX90 for under $80k
In my opinion considering Tesla has highest percentage of profit:vehicle vs any other car maker and that despite selling 1/7 of the number of vehicles that Toyota sold ... that Tesla made more money than Toyota ... they should totally dial back their prices down to reality (ex, Model X long range, same as it is sold today for $124k for 7 seater, used to be $91k virtually unchanged)
If I was running Tesla I would put the pedal to the metal on ramping up production so that wait time is not so bad while also reducing profit margin per vehicle to match (or beat) that of Toyota as to aggressively make the car the most financial sound option while also raising every worker's salary by solid margin (~20%) to retain and attract best talent (all workers, factory and all).
And you know, make Yoke a +$5k option not the standard
But what do I know
(And while we are at it, if I can run more companies from my arm chair, I'd make Apple use their mountains of cash on hand to build factories in the US and in EU, following Tesla's logic of "dont ship stuff between continents if possible" and as hedge vs worsening relations with china, but again, wtf do I know, right?)
@Pricedm Wheel blocks display/gauges is a real, consistent problem for some of us, I am with Tesla on that. On most cars that have driver's gauges/display, it is partially blocked by the wheel for me, when I adjust everything for best driving comfort. So I was excited about the yoke, before learning how badly it was implemented (steering ratio way too slow for a yoke, no stalks, capacitive buttons).
Frankly Tesla solved it better in the Model 3. I love the small sporty steering wheel, and how nothing is blocked by it. I don't miss the driver's display at all, I'm actually glad there isn't one. Watching my speed is easier for me in the Model 3 than the Model S or most other cars. I do prefer the Model S software UI of course, because the Model 3 software inanely wastes a third of the screen on AP/FSD visualizations, but that's not any fault of the single screen, it's just Tesla being obnoxious with AP/FSD self-promotion.
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On the R1T front, we're excited to hopefully replace our Model S with the R1T we ordered (if Rivian ever builds our config), but that's mostly because our needs have changed and we could really use a pickup nowadays. If a Model S is the right kind of vehicle for someone, I would not suggest the R1T as a replacement, anymore than I would suggest an ICE pickup to someone who just needs an ICE sedan.
R1T is a very exciting in its own right, but it's just as different from a Model S as an ICE pickup is from a good ICE sedan. There's no escaping the physics of that weight and height. If I didn't need to haul heavy, dirty stuff around I'd rather keep and drive the Model S (or upgrade to a newer Model S). That pattern keeps going of course. When I don't need the space of the Model S I'd rather drive the Model 3. And when I don't need a sedan at all, sometimes I'd rather drive a good sports car, if I had one.
R1T drives very well for what it is, much better than any ICE pickup I've driven and without guzzling any gas, and its quad motor setup is awesome, but it's still a tall heavy pickup that doesn't drive anything like good sporty EV sedan.
R1T is a very exciting in its own right, but it's just as different from a Model S as an ICE pickup is from a good ICE sedan. There's no escaping the physics of that weight and height. If I didn't need to haul heavy, dirty stuff around I'd rather keep and drive the Model S (or upgrade to a newer Model S). That pattern keeps going of course. When I don't need the space of the Model S I'd rather drive the Model 3. And when I don't need a sedan at all, sometimes I'd rather drive a good sports car, if I had one.
R1T drives very well for what it is, much better than any ICE pickup I've driven and without guzzling any gas, and its quad motor setup is awesome, but it's still a tall heavy pickup that doesn't drive anything like good sporty EV sedan.
Soon it may not matter: some renderings of Tesla Semi show stalks, but recent renderings seem to be stalkless. If, as widely predicted, Tesla foists the asinine stalkless / haptic paradigm on the entire fleet, there won’t be any hardware to transplant. No company will assume the financial risk to copy/develop stalks that Tesla could break with a firmware update.
The best thing do to is walk away. I understand it’s hard. We’ve been in the Tesla ‘ecosystem’ for seven years. We wired two Tesla wall connectors into our home and garage, bought sets of snow tires, wheels, tools, accessories, etc. but nope. Tesla’s idiotic new controls, horrid customer support, skyrocketing prices, and Elon’s constant lies and BS (FSD, center horn, Twitter) have ensured our money will go elsewhere next time. And yes, I realize no one cares. But Tesla won’t improve until they start to lose and/or until Elon steps away so he can devote himself fully to his moronic, prodigiously expensive and embarrassing social media antics.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Tesla Reveal ... a love story.
Yeah, it's difficult. She's beautifull. The look she gives draws you in and the spell is cast. So soft and sensual. The way she walks is so alluring. Every body is looking, then she trips. The caps on her teeth pop off, a hair extension falls out, the makup smudges revealing pock marks. But it doesn't matter because she's yours. You've grown to love those cute quirky things. The curtain reveals more things and you start thinking ... maybe she's not what she appears to be. Do you give up and walk away or do you embrace her even more?
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strider
Active Member
I'm not sure you understand how it works. RHuber's solution sends the exact same LIN and CAN messages that Tesla's own buttons send. So if Tesla breaks the stalks they break the yoke too. Theoretically they could change the messages that are used and reprogram the car and the yoke during a software update but that's a lot of work just to mess with people and it would be trivial to decode the new messages and update the stalk module software.
Tesla could do the exact same thing and render the SEXY buttons (temporarily) inoperative yet Enhanced Auto has spent time and money to create them.
As for hardware availability - Tesla will need to support the existing fleet for many years. There will be stalks and clocksprings for the foreseeable future. I also expect them to keep doing exactly what they're doing now which is the use the existing 3/Y clockspring in the stalkless 3/Y so the retrofit will continue to be possible.
But that is part of why I would plan to keep my Hannshow wheel that has the yoke electronics in it. That way if the stalks failed for some reason I'm back where I started. I realize that the Hannshow wheel is more expensive than a 3/Y wheel but I like the redundancy (and I already have it).
Like many things, it's all relative. If what you need/want is a 6-seat EV SUV, your choices are thin right now. Tesla, Rivian, MB, and Volvo (in 2024) are it I believe. If you're a Model S customer, there are also few options. 3/Y customers have a number of choices now with the Hyundai/Kia siblings the top choice in that space IMO.
I just bought my MX in May so I have some time. Long distance travel is not issue for me - if I'm going that far I will fly. The one long distance drive we do every year is to take the kids to summer camp. There are 3 CCS DC chargers on the way and 0 SCs. To get to an SC we have to drive an extra 30 minutes each way. This year I'm going to borrow the Tesla CCS adapter from a friend and not use the SC network at all for that trip.
The main issue with this is that it is very much a hardware _and_ software solution and requires buildout of both, with hardware being the harder part. You have to talk LINx2 and CANx2 (minimum, 3 can if you want suspension height control). We got to the point of decent prototype boards, but it still requires hours of manual labor to make the harness adapter and whatnot.
I even shared the code with some friends in the product space, who have released CAN boards with many users, but after trying for a while, I think they largely gave up. It is a LOT of work, and thus would be a limited market, given what you would need to charge $-wise to make it viable.
Just a note on this:
Tesla rarely changes CAN messages, but it does happen, and with some other projects I've had to update to handle those changes, but rarely.
In this case I am using mostly LIN messages, which has been completely stable/unchanged since I purchased the vehicle. The nice thing about LIN based solutions is that it is highly unlikely Tesla will bother to change this stuff for the entire product lifecycle. The LIN messaging is very simple and sends mostly positions/states with a super basic serial format that I can't imagine them ever deciding to change.
If anyone decides to work on this stuff, I highly recommend they focus on LIN, as I did with the prototypes.
strider
Active Member
I'd pay even more. As it stands, the lack of stalks/wheel might be enough to force my hand into buying a new car entirely (my wife can't tolerate the yoke), so $1k to fix it would still likely be economical for my situation.
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