Would you give up free supercharging for life?

[Gray468]

Bought a June 2017 S 100D with all the fixens. I used a friend referral to get supercharging for life of the car. Following month, left on a 49 day, Santa Barbara to Halifax NS and back road trip. At the time superchargers ended on the east border of Quebec. Had to overnight in a Hotel (240 miles away) with a free charger. Had 272 miles to go, needed a couple hours at lunch near a another free one. When I arrived at my friends, I was almost empty. Could not reach his dryer plug. And the household outlet I could reach took 3.5 days to fill the tank. It worked out, but I appreciated SC most of the way there and back.

Have done 25k miles so far.... maybe 60% superchargers, 20% free chargers (some near home) and 20% from home.

I have solar that produces more than I consume. I get about 3 cents a kWh from the elect company at the end of the year for the excess. So when I charge at home, it’s costing me 3 cents a kWh as it bites into my excess. Yeah, yeah I have not factored the capital investment of the solar or the monthly distribution charges ($10/month here). Those are sunk costs. I still feel the 3 cents a kWh is my cost to charge at home. If you really want to get into it, it needs to be a net present value analysis... but I digress.

Bottom line: it’s more an emotional argument than a logical one that I want to keep my free SC for life. As the years roll by, it may even become more valuable. Yes, there may be features down the road that seem tempting. But today, after 21 months driving this car, I see nothing on the horizon that would make me feel an urge to upgrade, especially if it means no SC for life.

 

[D.E.]

It won't really become HW3 with the upgrade. With FSD, Tesla will swap out the old AI chip for the new one, but they won't upgrade the forward-facing cameras or the old, slow nVidia MCU with its limited memory. For example, I presume that means that it still would not be capable of supporting the DashCam or Sentry features.
It will supposedly perform FSD, when and if that comes, but it's not at all clear to me that it will do it as well or as safely as cars delivered with HW3. Maybe, but that remains to be seen. What we do know is that HW2 cars will NOT be able to support FSD without the AI chip upgrade, but we don't know if that will make them equivalent to a Tesla that's the current model when FSD is enabled.
I bought my 2017 Model S on the assumption that I'd be able to keep it for ten years or more, eventually with FSD, but that becomes more questionable all the time.
I probably would give up Free Supercharging For Life in order to get upgraded range and FSD if the new AI chip, alone, isn't capable of delivering it. I find that I just don't use the Free Supercharging very much at all. It's very, very cool to be able to say I have it, a real Wow factor, but it just doesn't get used much.

I don’t think it is just a chip upgrade, I think it is the whole computer, it’s all on a replaceable board. I can’t say for sure but that was my understanding.

 

[boonedocks]

Most honest answer yet posted by @Gray468
“Bottom line: it’s more an emotional argument than a logical one that I want to keep my free SC for life.”

Being a logical versus emotional thinker..that’s why I voted yes I would give up FUSC for a refund of the perceived value or something of like value.

 

[Rownolds]

I ordered my M3 AWD Performance when they were saying that model and trim would have free SC for life. When I went to pick it up there was no free SCing anymore, but the price had been cut $5000. TOTAL SCORE!!! I was delighted. I had a 2014 pre-AP model S with free supercharging and we put 120,000 miles on it. So I know what that's like. We have 25K miles on the M3 so I also know what paying for it is like. Other than cluttering up the VISA statement it's really not that big a deal. However, I know what you're feeling, because I agonized over losing the free SCing, but you get used to not having it after a few months and if you crunch the numbers, it's really not worth all that much. OTOH, if you had to swipe a card and push buttons to SC, that'd suck and make the freebie more useful, if not more valuable. But the mechanics of free vs. paid is just the same. Pull in, plug in, go get a mocha.

 

[JHuberman]

I voted "NO", but in the 40,000 miles I've driven, about 7,000 using superchargers I have saved about $500 at the SC (at $0.20 / kWh ~7 cents/mile)
On the other hand I have a weekly 70 mile commute between two houses at one I pay $.11/kWh and at the other, on a special electric car rate I pay $.03/kWh averaging about 2 cents/mile. So the SC savings aren't so significant after all.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Maybe you should get a sign to stick on the windshield...

Good idea. There is that 60 on the back of my car but when I'm backed in to a stall newcomers can't see it!

Usually when I am at a Supercharger Station it is nearly empty or, on occasion, so full that the newcomer doesn't have much choice. (I have educated Tesla newbies about pairing and suggested that they choose an unpaired stall.) At least when I am the one to pair with someone already there it doesn't much affect my charging speed.

 

[xrayangiodoc]

I really like the lifetime Supercharging benefit on my 2014 S85. I would only consider getting a newer Model S if I feel that the driver assist features of AutoPilot (not present on my pre-AutoPilot car) become important should my native driver skills degrade with age.

 

[Gray468]

Most honest answer yet posted by @Gray468
“Bottom line: it’s more an emotional argument than a logical one that I want to keep my free SC for life.”

Being a logical versus emotional thinker..that’s why I voted yes I would give up FUSC for a refund of the perceived value or something of like value.

Ahhhh, if we were logical thinkers none of us would have Tesla’s. We would be happy with transport at a fraction of the cost and find logical places to use the scads of money we would have left over.

I for one rate the Tesla an emotional experience and an emotional choice I am happy with. Yay emotional thinking!

 

[whitex]

I pay 16 ct per kWh at home at night. 24 ct to 42ct during the day. On the road, that price doesn't mean anything, though. Hard to put a number on that as you would have to find alternatives to Superchargers. There really wasn't anything in the first 3 years of my ownership. Now some DC stations are starting to pup up along major interstates. That's why I put a higher number for electricity into my calculations.

The original question was, would you give up free supercharging. That means the official price for supercharging would the price I'd have to pay going forward. Let's do the numbers.

I drive 45k miles a year, 70% of that on road trips using superchargers. That's 34 k miles. On those trips I get 2.8 miles per kWh (355 Wh/mile). Energy at the supercharger in California (where I drive the most) is $0.28 per kWh.
34,000 / 2.8 * $0.28 = $3,400 per year.

I had my car for 5 years now. Using these numbers, over 5 years I saved $17,000 by having free supercharging.

Another thing worth pointing out. The energy consumption the car shows you is not what the car really uses. The trip meters don't count energy used while the car is parked. Based on my measurements, the car uses 5-10% more (depending on how much you precondition your car). The onboard charger has an efficiency of about 88%, so there is another 12% loss. In other words, charging at home uses aprox 20% more than you might think by looking at the energy consumption shown by the car.

You seem to have a rather unusual situation benefiting from the superchargers more than most people. Congratulations on having a Model S with over 225,000 miles btw! It is largest mileage I've read about outside of people using Tesla's as taxis. Are you still on the original battery? If yes, what is your degradation after than many miles, and 70% of them using supercharging (supposedly DC charging degrades the battery faster)?

 

[whitex]

Did you bring that up with the hotel management? I've always had them charge at either 80 or 40 amps. (60 / 30 mph).

There is no such requirement. And amperage doesn't always tell the full story. I charged at one destination charger which only shows 208V nominal - I think it's connected to a 3 phase source, so while it can go up to 80A, it's not the same speed as 240V 80A, and for cars limited to 40A it's even slower.

 

[GoBlue88]

I'd give up my free supercharging for life right now in exchange for a valid carpool lane sticker.

 

[coltspackers]

You seem to have a rather unusual situation benefiting from the superchargers more than most people. Congratulations on having a Model S with over 225,000 miles btw! It is largest mileage I've read about outside of people using Tesla's as taxis. Are you still on the original battery? If yes, what is your degradation after than many miles, and 70% of them using supercharging (supposedly DC charging degrades the battery faster)?

I think I have the same-ish car as him. 2014 Model S (no AP hardware). Bought it used about a yr ago, have put about 20K miles on it.

I only have 120V charging at home (and waiting to buy a house to upgrade home charging, current situation w/my condo sucks if I wanted to try an install), so I don't do that much...have several superchargers around me here in Seattle, so probably 98% of my 20K miles is supercharging.

Here was my math...20,000 miles / 245 miles per full tank ~ 81.63 full charges, it took me to travel those 20k miles.

81.63 charges * 85KWh energy per full charge ~ 6939 KWh of energy I've supercharged.

Multiplied by what Electrek says is the US National average price for SC... .28c per kWh ... comes to about $1950 I saved this first year of ownership.

 

[Jean-ClaudeD]

I already gave it up in exchange for $5000 cash back. I’d have to SC once a week for 12 years to break even. That will never happen. So at most it’s worth $5000. In reality I might use $1000 worth in 10 years. And that’s based on $0.25 kWh.

Not sure about your math. If you charge empty to full, once a week, an S85 will use 4250 KWh a year, or about $1100 a year. Now, if your only charging once a week, your ROI is 4 years.

But, if you drive a lot, this quickly changes. I charge 30% to 90% two or three times a week. About 8,000 kWh a year, or almost $2000 a year.

I know people who charge from 15 or 20% to almost 100 every day, and sometimes more then once a day. (The person I am thinking of said he drives 100 miles to work each way).

 

[akhafagi]

I have free supercharging for life on both cars (Model X and Model S). I also have a dedicated EV meter at home for a monthly flat fee of $45/month. When I drive to NY from MI with my family, we have to do it over two days because the kids won’t handle 640 miles in one shot. I choose a destination charger hotel strategically to save 2 SC stops and hence save time. I make this trip twice a year and it would cost $100 approximately for the round trip if I didn’t have FUSC. This is not a reason to keep FUSC. Model X doesn’t use SC otherwise. It is used for short round trips daily and charges at home exclusively. Model S however, is used for long weekly work commutes of about 3k miles/mo. I save $1000 annually on SC. It may not sound like a big deal but in 10 years that’s $10k. If my battery degrades and I buy a new battery, free supercharging would pay for the battery overtime. While I would give up FUSC for Model X to upgrade to FSD, my wife has zero interest in FSD on her short daily commutes to work. Upgrading to AP2 car to get FSD and AP3 just for the two trips a year to New York doesn’t seem a good use of money. Of course, I wouldn’t give up FUSC for the Model S. In short, I’m staying the course.

I don’t think that it’s worth it to detour and waste time on my way home just to use the SC for free. Many times I pay for a destination charger to avoid a SC stop. Efficiency is extremely important. I don’t get those who would rather use a SC off their route than use a destination charger to save $10. It is worth it if your hourly wage is that low which will be the case for the owners of used 2012 Teslas. I hope no one would be making such a low wage in few years anyway.

 

[whitex]

I think I have the same-ish car as him. 2014 Model S (no AP hardware). Bought it used about a yr ago, have put about 20K miles on it.

I only have 120V charging at home (and waiting to buy a house to upgrade home charging, current situation w/my condo sucks if I wanted to try an install), so I don't do that much...have several superchargers around me here in Seattle, so probably 98% of my 20K miles is supercharging.

Here was my math...20,000 miles / 245 miles per full tank ~ 81.63 full charges, it took me to travel those 20k miles.

81.63 charges * 85KWh energy per full charge ~ 6939 KWh of energy I've supercharged.

Multiplied by what Electrek says is the US National average price for SC... .28c per kWh ... comes to about $1950 I saved this first year of ownership.

Your home rate would have been about $0.10, so compared to home charging $639. You are not using supercharging as intended for long distance trips (think of it this way, there aren't enough superchargers around for all owners to supercharge daily), so again your situation is not typical. Also, electricity around Seattle is cheaper than national average, so why use the national SC averaging? You did forget to add $500 plus installation cost of HPWC to your savings too - if solely supercharging, you save money by not having to install one. If it's an expensive electrician, it's possible you saved additional thousands.

While I can see people wanting to use high numbers to make themselves feel good about how much they are saving, the truth is such "savings" are often not realistic. If you in fact had to pay $4K a year for supercharging, you'd get that home charger sooner, even if it costs $4K to install, that "pays for itself" in just over a year. Your situation does however expose the danger of used Teslas with unlimited supercharging, as they get cheaper, people who don't have, or cannot afford, home charging will buy those cars and plug up the supercharging infrastructure with daily local charging.

 

[mswlogo]

Not sure about your math. If you charge empty to full, once a week, an S85 will use 4250 KWh a year, or about $1100 a year. Now, if your only charging once a week, your ROI is 4 years.

But, if you drive a lot, this quickly changes. I charge 30% to 90% two or three times a week. About 8,000 kWh a year, or almost $2000 a year.

I know people who charge from 15 or 20% to almost 100 every day, and sometimes more then once a day. (The person I am thinking of said he drives 100 miles to work each way).

Your right, my math was off a bit. But keep in mind I would never do all my charging via SC, to me that would be a real nuisance. Charging at home is what makes EV work (and offsets using gas stations with ICE). Having to always use SC defeats EV advantages.

So I was basing it off my Model 3 (ROI on a Model S would pay off sooner, what ever your metric).

For me charging once a week on a SC, would be a LOT, and I'd have to go out of my way to use it once a week vs charging at home.

So my stab in the dark metric was what would once a week equate too.

Nobody charges 0 - 100%, I think we can agree on that.

So let's say I add 200 miles on a typical SC (and that's on the high side).

My model 3 I expect to average around 250 wh/m (maybe lower, it's been 272 in winter).

So 200 miles * 0.250 kwh/m is 50 kWh per charge.

50 kWh * 52 weeks is 2600 kWh a year.

BTW that would be 10,400 miles a year and I expect to put 12,000 miles a year, so that would be close to 100% SC for me.

2600 kWh * $0.25 kWh (my rate and SC rate in my area) is $650 a year.

$5000 / $650 = 7.69 years to break even.

That does not account for charging inefficiency. But I probably typically would not add 200 miles. And my Model 3 wh/m might end up being better. Have not done a year yet.

But every week is unrealistic for me and 7.69 years is long time.

Of course if you do more miles, bigger car and exclusively use SC the pay back would be much sooner.

 

[whitex]

I think Tesla should start selling unlimited supercharging for $15K. All those people who save thousands every year would have the option to purchase it. Unfortunately, I suspect the take rate would be very low, because as much as some people with free supercharging see it as saving thousands every year, they would not value the option as high, even if the math (using their claimed savings) said it's worth $15K (if you believe you save $4K a year, it should be a no brainers to pay $15K for unlimited free supercharging). Often money people see as "saving" is not money they would have paid, because they would have found cheaper solution if they had to. It would be like me saying I save $1.5M by buying a Tesla vs. a Bugatti Veyron - man that Tesla paid for itself many times over already.

Another way to value it, compare selling prices of similar used Teslas, one with supercharging and one without. The difference will tell you how much people value it.

 

[jerry33]

So let's say I add 200 miles on a typical SC (and that's on the high side).

FWIW
The trip I take most frequently has
1@150 miles, 1@220 miles, 2@100 miles going. 450 SC charged miles plus 220 miles charging home total 670 miles.
3@100 miles, 1@150, and 1@220 miles coming back. 670 SC charged miles
Max would be four times a year. (This doesn't count any side trips that might be made, just going and coming)
A total of 1120 SC miles per trip.
So if the average is three trips a year, that's 3,360 SC miles. Charging this distance at home would cost about $85.00.
But assuming that trips use 20% more energy than around town and using 28 cents/kWh as the SC price, it works out to about $285.00 per year.

 

[bariiings]

The free supercharging was definitely a calculated part of purchasing the car. In 18 months ive driven almost 70k miles for work and would say 75% of my charging is on the supercharging network. I travel multiple states for work and use them extensively. So far, I have gotten just over $2k in "free supercharging" based on the 13 cents per KW I pay at home. While I charge at home, I am usually on the road. I do frequent hotels that have charging but there are parts of my area, that there are few options. For 15 years, I have worked for this company and drove two different Jetta diesels for over 500k miles in that time. The free supercharging was calculated to save me close to $15k if I can get the car to last 500k miles. This is all using the 13 cents a KW rate at home instead of the cost at each individual charger.
I will likely have close to 400k miles on the car when the battery and drive train warranty run out. Hopefully it lasts for me.
Haven't regretted the decision yet.

My favorite thing is showing people about my long distance travel and ease with the supercharging network. There are always people that speak about not being able to travel anywhere with an electric car.

 

[Chatterbox]

Our legacy bonus for being early adopters and helping Tesla test its early cars is free road-trips for life. It really doesn't amount to more than a few hundred or maybe 1-2 thousand dollars per year for the real long-distance drivers, but it sure feels nice anyway. The simplicity of not worrying about payment is the best.

The only thing that might pry me out of my legacy, free-charging Model S would be perfectly reliable autopilot and driverless delivery to any location selected. And I do not mean "hands on the wheel." I mean i tuck myself into the back (belted!) and sleep my way to my destination.