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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't believe that Elon is particularly worried about paying a $1k fine on his M3.
The law requiring the Monroney sticker law doesn't actually require the EPA numbers. I just looked it up.

The EPA numbers must be required by some other law which I haven't found.

I know spots can be left blank on the sticker; I've seen that.

Relax guys the car has only been produced. Not sold. It's designated for Elon.

Soon after they deliver the cars on July 28 (my B'day) they will likely have the information on the EPA website. But I do agree there are delays. I was looking for the Bolt information right after it launched. GM had released but it was a few weeks before it was on the EPA website. I think we will get most of the information on July 28th directly from Tesla at the reveal.
 
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I just listened to a podcast, stating that (he hadn't seen the picture) that he believes that Elon would get the car with vin number one, and Elon's MS and MX were both black.
So is/was Roadster VP1 (Validation prototype, which became Elon's Roadster). I got to ride in it once with Peter Rawlings.
 
If Tesla can capture 0.75% of the 2017 Global Car Market in 2020, or just 2.9% of the 2017 US Car Market and 0% of the 2017 World Car Market in 2020, they will sell approximately 500,00 cars a year.

500,000 cars x $60,000 ASP = $30 Billion. If after all expenses and yada yada yada is taken into account, Tesla GAAP profits are equal to what GM makes on each car (WHICH IS A LOW-BALL BECAUSE GM IS STILL USING A DEALERSHIP MODEL), you'll have a company looking like this:

5+ years of at least 50% revenue growth, with high-end products sustaining 20%-25% margins, lower-end products sustaining 10%-15% margins, resulting in profits of approximately $3 Billion.

There are very few companies in this world that have billions of dollars of revenue and are growing that revenue at a rate of at least 50% a year, every year, with plans to grow up to 100% a year if all goes as planned.

If you apply a multiple of 30 to a company like that, which is low if you've followed markets over the years, you'd come to a $90 Billion valuation.

Tesla would still not be as valuable as GM and its dealerships. Not even close. Those dealerships aren't paying those $75,000 a year salesman with fun-coupons. And there are THOUSANDS of GM dealerships.

So, when it doubt, math and logic.

Stocks go up and down and change all the time. Simple math today is simple math tomorrow.
Wow, I did a very similar analysis in 2016 that led me to triple my holdings at an average price of $180. Right down to the $90B valuation on $30B in revenue in 2019 or 2020. Being able to grow a $10B+ company at a CAGR of 50%+ is an extremely rare phenomenon as I found out while researching for comparables (Aside: When till the FANG acronym be changed to include a T?).

This week I got a note from my GS advisor suggesting I sell my Tesla position since it is likely to trade sideways or down in the short to medium term. I told him that my investment thesis for 2019 is still intact, in fact stronger, and I don't want to lose capital to taxes and possibly miss out on buying back in. (He is a Model S owner and not an advocate of Tamberrino's position on the stock.)

Your simple math works for me!
 
Absolutely laughable...


Anton Wahlman, "GM To Deliver Inexpensive 200-Mile EV 2 Years Ahead Of Tesla", 2/2015
GM To Deliver Inexpensive 200-Mile EV 2 Years Ahead Of Tesla - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha




Montana Skeptic, "Tesla's Model 3 Mess Has Become Much Messier", 11/2016
Tesla's Model 3 Mess Has Become Much Messier - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha



The comments in those articles and many others like them paint a very different picture.



And so... what volumes of BEVs do you think all of the luxury auto marquees will produce in 2018? 2019? 2020? Which models will ship and at what price points and what volume? What is the marketshare of all of the rest of the auto industry in long range BEVs in 2020 or 2021? I'm curious what marketshare you think Tesla will have versus everyone else, restricting ourselves to vehicles designed and available for purchase in EU and U.S. (ie. Chinese production of scooters and vehicles that cannot pass worldwide homologation excluded).

Here's what I published in response to all that FUD in August 2016, predicting Bolt would flop vs model 3:

Tesla Competition: GM Edition - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

To answer your question with a TL;DR: I expect Tesla to produce majority of all-electric vehicles for the foreseeable future following 2018. Nobody else has even plans to build their first gigafactory while Tesla will soon announce locations for its next four. The following article discusses this a bit more and touches on competitors' borrowing capacity, or lack thereof:

The Problem With Tesla's Competition - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha
 
Absolutely laughable...


Anton Wahlman, "GM To Deliver Inexpensive 200-Mile EV 2 Years Ahead Of Tesla", 2/2015
GM To Deliver Inexpensive 200-Mile EV 2 Years Ahead Of Tesla - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha




Montana Skeptic, "Tesla's Model 3 Mess Has Become Much Messier", 11/2016
Tesla's Model 3 Mess Has Become Much Messier - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha



The comments in those articles and many others like them paint a very different picture.



And so... what volumes of BEVs do you think all of the luxury auto marquees will produce in 2018? 2019? 2020? Which models will ship and at what price points and what volume? What is the marketshare of all of the rest of the auto industry in long range BEVs in 2020 or 2021? I'm curious what marketshare you think Tesla will have versus everyone else, restricting ourselves to vehicles designed and available for purchase in EU and U.S. (ie. Chinese production of scooters and vehicles that cannot pass worldwide homologation excluded).
you referenced an article that says this:

MS: "A $35,000 Model 3 in 2017? Nope, it just won’t happen. It will cost much more, and you won’t be able to buy one until the middle of 2018."

so has Tesla delivered an M3 yet?... no... they're about to deliver one... and then 30... and then 100... you speak as if Montana Skeptic has already been disproven... has he?... like I said... the practical worst case scenario (not including catastrophe)... is ramp starts in 2018... and there's still plenty of questions about what the profit point will be... if they don't make a profit for anything under ~$42k... then the M3 will be a complete failure of concept... it will NOT be an "affordable BEV for the masses" and Tesla will be downgraded to the low $100s...
 
The Model 3 production SN1 picture is expected and well priced into the today's pricing. I think a decent ramp rate is also priced in with the Elon-communicated schedule representing the floor. Going forward the big levers are more significant TE revenue, Model 3 ramp rate and any surprises at the Model 3 reveal, along with higher/lower surprises to normal Q2 earnings. With the reveal this month and presumably 2Q earnings call a few weeks later with potential color on Model 3 ramp it should be interesting to say the least :)

Fully agree on likely extension on last week's bear attack tomorrow. Last week was very eye opening to me on how coordinated this can be...
 
"Last week was very eye opening to me on how coordinated this can be"

were your eyes open during the 10x run from $38 to $380?... did you notice the snake oil salesmen upgrading the stock multiple times while their company was in the middle of a cash raises?... did you notice the timed pumping by the barron?... and after years of this stock pumping what we're left with is a simple car you drive... that does not drive itself... with a turtle slow production ramp on the way... but that doesn't matter right?... because Tesla is a "data company"... a "solar company"... a "tech company"... and recently a "media company"... please... i've seen a number of these "it's a conspiracy" posts... and NOW... with a stock that just crashed 20% off it's ridiculous peak... it's a conspiracy?... man... who could have predicted that?

2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

ME: "or... this is the longest "sell the news" story ever played out... and before you say... "your a f&#$*( a#$#$(#.... I hate you"... think about it for a second..."
 
"Last week was very eye opening to me on how coordinated this can be"

were your eyes open during the 10x run from $38 to $380?... did you notice the snake oil salesmen upgrading the stock multiple times while their company was in the middle of a cash raises?... did you notice the timed pumping by the barron?... and after years of this stock pumping what we're left with is a simple car you drive... that does not drive itself... with a turtle slow production ramp on the way... but that doesn't matter right?... because Tesla is a "data company"... a "solar company"... a "tech company"... and recently a "media company"... please... i've seen a number of these "it's a conspiracy" posts... and NOW... with a stock that just crashed 20% off it's ridiculous peak... it's a conspiracy?... man... who could have predicted that?

2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

ME: "or... this is the longest "sell the news" story ever played out... and before you say... "your a f&#$*( a#$#$(#.... I hate you"... think about it for a second..."

It's curious how we notice such different things, I could've sworn GS has downgraded TSLA the last 3 cap raises (or just prior to), and any other opportunity they get. I wasn't in TSLA going back any farther. I remember being annoyed each time because the stock was down 10-15$ before each raise. Reality is probably somewhere between our views, but I'd bet life's a lot more fun being an optimist than a pessimist. You do you.
 
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