rpiotro
Active Member
Assuming you qualify for the credit. I only paid $500 in federal taxes last year and none in the two years previous.
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2024 Model 3 LR AWD is now eligible for the $7500 tax credit [posted 06/17/2024]
- Thread starter eladts
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The POS credit does not require you to owe any specific amount of federal taxes though--- If you took a $7500 POS credit this year, but only end up with $500 in tax burden when you file in January of 2025, you will not owe the difference back. The ONLY limitation on the part of the buyer (vs. the car itself qualifying) is your MAGI can't exceed the 125k single/250k married-joint max.
(note this benefit of not needing $7500 in tax burden is specific to the POS version of the credit)
Jeremy3292
Active Member
Dude you are literally a walking misinformation man in this thread
first the battery cells, now the IRS rules. It’s $300k married and $150k single for the MAGI limits to claim the EV tax credit.Credits for new clean vehicles purchased in 2023 or after | Internal Revenue Service
You may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500 if you buy a new, qualified plug-in electric vehicle or fuel cell electric vehicle.
Directly from the IRS website:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Indeed, the limits are a bit higher- my apologies- 125/250 is the limits for additional Medicare taxes, 150/300 is the IRA EV credit.
Nothing I wrote about the actual point (that you don't need $7500 of liability to take the $7500 POS credit) changes by virtual of that however (in fact what you quoted confirms that when it notes this works differently if NOT taking the POS credit (the "if you do not transfer" line in your screen shot) -- so while I appreciate the correction you seem to be thinking of this as a far greater one than it is--- nor was anything I wrote about battery cells inaccurate- the US built LR AWD 3 previously used them from Korean LG factories with Chinese components, while the 3P used Nevada 2170s from Panasonic (as has all trims of the Y made in the US lately).
Thus there remains two competing theories here:
The May 3 sourcing rule changes now make the korean LG cells eligible
vs.
Y sales (which increased on Q1 YoY, not decreased) are somehow now down enough there's so many spare US cells they can put them in LR AWD 3s)
Either way, the objection of the guy I was replying to (that he doesn't have enough tax liability to take advantage of the newly available credit) remains untrue-- if you take it POS you don't need that liability.
Nothing I wrote about the actual point (that you don't need $7500 of liability to take the $7500 POS credit) changes by virtual of that however (in fact what you quoted confirms that when it notes this works differently if NOT taking the POS credit (the "if you do not transfer" line in your screen shot) -- so while I appreciate the correction you seem to be thinking of this as a far greater one than it is--- nor was anything I wrote about battery cells inaccurate- the US built LR AWD 3 previously used them from Korean LG factories with Chinese components, while the 3P used Nevada 2170s from Panasonic (as has all trims of the Y made in the US lately).
Thus there remains two competing theories here:
The May 3 sourcing rule changes now make the korean LG cells eligible
vs.
Y sales (which increased on Q1 YoY, not decreased) are somehow now down enough there's so many spare US cells they can put them in LR AWD 3s)
Either way, the objection of the guy I was replying to (that he doesn't have enough tax liability to take advantage of the newly available credit) remains untrue-- if you take it POS you don't need that liability.
I’m taking delivery of a LR AWD M3 on Thursday. The sales rep told me that cars in inventory do not qualify and I’d have to wait for a new one to be built. But after placing the order yesterday it scheduled my delivery for a car that was already in stock.
Is there any scenario where Tesla made an error here and the car does not qualify for the tax credit? And if so, is there any possibility the IRS could try to bill me back for the credit? I’ve confirmed that the credit has been assigned to Tesla on my reservation but the lack of clarity on what makes the VIN qualify is beginning to irritate me.
Is there any scenario where Tesla made an error here and the car does not qualify for the tax credit? And if so, is there any possibility the IRS could try to bill me back for the credit? I’ve confirmed that the credit has been assigned to Tesla on my reservation but the lack of clarity on what makes the VIN qualify is beginning to irritate me.
I think more likely is that Tesla didn’t communicate all information to line workers at their locations. They have to give you a copy of papers filed with IRS when picking up the car.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The capacity is not that different. It is around 78.8kWh LG vs. 82.1kWh Panasonic (“nameplate”) and the degradation threshold is set to 79kWh probably. (That would have to be confirmed to see how exactly they deal with this and what degradation threshold is on Highland - it's completely trivial to determine on a new vehicle with a healthy pack.)
EPA rated ranges for 2024 are a complete mess so hard to say one way or another but EPA range is stated at 342 (finally posted!) and is 341 on the Tesla website. So there are some shifts.
In any case Tesla can always voluntarily reduce rated range if they want if they happen to use Panasonic cells and want two vehicles with different packs to have the same EPA range. So there's not a requirement that the range be different if they go to a higher capacity pack.
Anyway, the EPA document and certificates calls out two different AWD vehicles -> AWD, and AWD-E. The AWD-E has a larger capacity, likely the Panasonic cells since it matches the Performance at about 80kWh (AWD-E)/80.1kWh (P). (This is the Panasonic "82.1kWh" pack)
There is a typo on page 7 calling it Performance (this is actually an AWD page), but anyway the capacity of the AWD (not the AWD-E!) is around 78.6kWh. That's consistent with an LG pack result.
So there are two different pack options AWD and AWD-E. Who knows what they are actually building, and what qualifies for the credit, and whether any rule changes have any impact (I have no idea and I don't follow that stuff closely). If I were forced to guess, I would guess they were building AWD earlier this year, and now are building AWD-E.
As an aside there's also an AWD-I for Model Y. It looks like AWD-I might have a slightly smaller pack but who knows - on Model Y the Performance really doesn't have a huge capacity nor does AWD - even though we know they use the Panasonic pack, they're around 79kWh on the EPA result, which is confusing...there is variability and we know this is possible for Panasonic initially for an actual capacity, but it's still weird when comparing to prior years (these values were as high as 81.x kWh) and to this year's Model 3 Performance. I would not read much into that. Maybe the I is for inferior.
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Jeremy3292
Active Member
It’s not a theory. The M3 LR with the LG cells does not qualify for the $7,500 personal tax credit. Tesla tells us this themselves with all the LR cars in inventory on their website, where it literally says it does not qualify. Why you and others on here refuse to believe it is mind blowing. That doesn’t even account for what one of the most well known battery members on here, @AlanSubie4Life, just posted.
Also YoY sales of the Model Y does not matter. It has zero bearing on today’s production and cell availability. What matters for production is current sales and current forecasted sales, which are down and projected to be even further down ahead of the Juniper refresh, not even including about all the Model Ys Tesla is sitting on currently and can’t sell.
MontyFloyd
Member
View attachment 1057274
Federal Tax Credits for Plug-in Electric and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After
Save up to $7,500 on qualifying vehicles!fueleconomy.gov
Anyone else see the price difference before $7500?
RWD vs AWD LR is $8500 .... Whut??
Also not the RWD has low APR.
RWD (no $
36 month 1.99%
48 and 60 month 2.99%
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It was already pointed out to you there's been many instances where Teslas website lagged updating accurately for some thing- including inventory cars- so that remains non-dispositive right now.
It's listed as one of two possible theories- so unsure how you get to "refuse to believe" a thing I specifically listed as one of two possible true things.
Did you actually read it? Because what he wrote was:
But you seem to think he instead outright said your theory must be the only possible correct one.
Of course it does.
Unless you think Panasonic is magically making a LOT more cells in Nevada today than a year ago.
Because if they're not, and Y sales are higher in 2024 than in 2023, there wouldn't be a ton of spare Nevada cells to go into 3s.
Except they are up in Q1 2024 compared to Q1 last year.
As you've been proven with links multiple times.
Sure- perhaps AFTER Q1 sales of the Y suddenly tanked like crazy and NOW there's extra cells.
That's literally one of the two theories I listed in the post you keep complain about.
No such refresh is coming this year, as explicitly stated by Elon.
Based on the Highland refresh a new Y would likely come early next year in China, but not to the US until mid-late 2025.
Panasonic has a new 2170 factory in the US (Kansas) with mass production is targeted to begin by the end of March 2025- so that lines up pretty nicely for solving any IRA cell concerns at that point.
Jeremy3292
Active Member
There’s more misinformation in your post here, but it’s fine. I don’t have the energy to parse it out again. You’re dug in; I’m dug in. We will see who is right shortly and like I said, feel free to bookmark my posts and come back in a few weeks. This isn’t rocket science. It’s very clear they are Panasonic cells.
I’m not going to pick a side here since I still think either theory is possible. But two things to note:
1) I’m picking up a LR M3 car on Thursday that does qualify for the credit. Is there anything I can do once I have access to the car to confirm the battery type?
2) I’ve been watching LR M3 inventory vehicles for the past few weeks and they have been silent on anything related to tax credits. As of yesterday I’m seeing those same inventory models with the flag stating “Eligible for $7,500 EV Lease Incentive and Business Tax Credit Only”. So it would seem the website has been updated over the past day or so with this message. So it seems they did go out of their way to indicate that some of these LR M3 models do not qualify for the tax credit.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
If you dig around @eivissa website he might have battery codes documented. I got a screen capture of the list of battery codes (Panasonic and LG) posted recently in another thread straight from his site (can check posts from the last few days, also shows how to take picture - it’s really quite easy, though I go from the front of the wheel not the back, IIRC ), but not sure whether it is up to date and whether applicable to US cars. Also no idea whether the label is still attached to packs in the same place.
Of course if the part number matches one on his list then it would certainly be definitive.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Mainly because it exists only in your imagination.
It's especially obvious when someone takes multiple sentences to claim someone is posting misinformation but then refuses to say what.
In contrast it's clear the multiple times in the last couple pages you claimed you were not going to post further were, indeed, all misinformation
Part number is the most definitive way, but one could also just drive to a V3/V4 SUC with preconditioning with SOC at 10% or below. If the car then pulls 250kW to at least 14% it is a Panasonic. If it hits 250kW for a few seconds and then drops it is the LG. Some people with back problems might prefer this method
TomServo
Active Member
If I want to physically inspect it, how would I go about doing it?Part number is the most definitive way, but one could also just drive to a V3/V4 SUC with preconditioning with SOC at 10% or below. If the car then pulls 250kW to at least 14% it is a Panasonic. If it hits 250kW for a few seconds and then drops it is the LG. Some people with back problems might prefer this method
Steer all the way to the left, then go behind the front right wheel (left side of the wheel). You should be able to move your arm with your phone in your hand above the lower wishbone into the "belly of the car". Now you want to have video function recording and film to the rear of the car. Basically filming in the direction of the spot were you would find the gearbox in a RWD ICE car, meaning the lower center of the car, were you would expect the front/middle of the battery pack. There is a sticker that you have to hope to catch with your video. You will have your phone pointing in that direction and filming, without you knowing if it worked, so just move the phone around in the hopes that you catch it. There are better explanations, but I dont have them at hand at the moment.
If the 2024 Model 3 LR sold prior to this week qualifies, It appears Tesla will need to file paperwork with the IRS linking the VINs with the owners. The IRS verifies the VIN and owner that was submitted by the car seller (Tesla) in order to approve the rebate when you file your taxes.
So far we have not got any official communication from Tesla if the 2024 Model 3 LR sold prior to this week qualifies and if they will file the paperwork.
So far we have not got any official communication from Tesla if the 2024 Model 3 LR sold prior to this week qualifies and if they will file the paperwork.
Older Highlands are not eligible for the Federal rebate. You can clearly see this just by going to their site and checking out available inventory. I can see Highland LRs that aren’t eligible like this one:
And those that are eligible, like this one:
So it is clearly not the case that all Highland LRs are eligible (something about the car itself, not the legal requirements, has changed). If you just took possession of a Highland LR and are eligible for the tax rebate, you got screwed. If you haven’t yet taken possession of one, are eligible, and are about to pick one up, I’d cancel my current order and make sure I got one that is (you’d lose your $250 deposit but gain a $7500 rebate…well worth it).
And those that are eligible, like this one:
So it is clearly not the case that all Highland LRs are eligible (something about the car itself, not the legal requirements, has changed). If you just took possession of a Highland LR and are eligible for the tax rebate, you got screwed. If you haven’t yet taken possession of one, are eligible, and are about to pick one up, I’d cancel my current order and make sure I got one that is (you’d lose your $250 deposit but gain a $7500 rebate…well worth it).
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