60KWH roll-in - B5 theory: they won't do it til after Jan1

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Thanks, Kip. Sorry that I was complicit in dragging you and your family into this cesspool too!

If the TMC admins can make it happen, I'd like to change my handle to gg_once_wanted_a_tesla_real_bad_but_now_just_wants_to_get_it_over_with

 

[Kipernicus]

Thanks, Kip. Sorry that I was complicit in dragging you and your family into this cesspool too!

If the TMC admins can make it happen, I'd like to change my handle to gg_once_wanted_a_tesla_real_bad_but_now_just_wants_to_get_it_over_with

LOL!!

 

[dsm363]

The 40 and 60 kWh cars appear to be a gateway EVs in order to get you hooked and asking for the 85 kWh model. Hope it works out for you how you want gg.

 

[Ceilidh]

Hmmmmmmm. Frustrating that TMCs Left Hand still has no idea what the Right is doing. I would have thought that by now they would have got the idea that this is extremely irritating to their customers. George B. : Take a hint. FIX THIS ISSUE.

Would be much easier to deal with certain delays than uncertain ones in limbo. I also frankly cannot afford an 85 kWh battery, but having placed my reservation the first week or so that they were available about 3 1/2 years ago, I will reiterate that this feels like not so much love for being an early supporter. The more that Tesla jerks people around, the worse their reputation will be. As a shareholder, this worries me. It seems like they could have fixed this by now. They have had months to correct the issue of inconsistent disseminated information. Ugh.

I too have a dying car that I would have just been rid of and now will need to fork out a bunch of extra cash to repair first then sell whenever Tesla decides to make my car. I'm not so sure they have any intention of hurrying up on the 60 kWh batteries because it seems to me that if these customers were a priority equal with the 85 kWh customers, then as soon as the EPA had certified the battery, it should have entered the production line.

The tray is the same size in the end. How much harder can it be to fit the same sized tray into the production sequence? They have the most advanced robots in the world. Come on now. Something here is not adding up.

Still excited for the car, but as a Tesla fan due to being an Earth lover rather than to keep up with the Joneses, each day more with an ICE car is another day my great great great great grandchildren will have to deal with the atmospheric mess they inherit, partially on my account.

Cheers.

 

[setritt]

Yes, Kip! These are the mantras that I'm swearing by as well.

Those rich suckers fell for the 300-mile-range carrot and forked out atleast $8k-$10k more to subsidize Tesla's business/existence for the rest of us :tongue:

i felt similar and thought there is no reason to get the 85kw vs the 60kw but do feel as though the performance is a good deal. look at audi, the a6 vs the s6 is over a 17k difference!!!

 

[mbcaffe]

Hmmmmmmm. Frustrating that TMCs Left Hand still has no idea what the Right is doing. I would have thought that by now they would have got the idea that this is extremely irritating to their customers. George B. : Take a hint. FIX THIS ISSUE.

Would be much easier to deal with certain delays than uncertain ones in limbo. I also frankly cannot afford an 85 kWh battery, but having placed my reservation the first week or so that they were available about 3 1/2 years ago, I will reiterate that this feels like not so much love for being an early supporter. The more that Tesla jerks people around, the worse their reputation will be. As a shareholder, this worries me. It seems like they could have fixed this by now. They have had months to correct the issue of inconsistent disseminated information. Ugh.

I too have a dying car that I would have just been rid of and now will need to fork out a bunch of extra cash to repair first then sell whenever Tesla decides to make my car. I'm not so sure they have any intention of hurrying up on the 60 kWh batteries because it seems to me that if these customers were a priority equal with the 85 kWh customers, then as soon as the EPA had certified the battery, it should have entered the production line.

The tray is the same size in the end. How much harder can it be to fit the same sized tray into the production sequence? They have the most advanced robots in the world. Come on now. Something here is not adding up.

Still excited for the car, but as a Tesla fan due to being an Earth lover rather than to keep up with the Joneses, each day more with an ICE car is another day my great great great great grandchildren will have to deal with the atmospheric mess they inherit, partially on my account.

Cheers.

Ceilidh
Well said

 

[setritt]

So CAN we switch? I was under the impression that it wasn't possible to make the change anymore?

i called a couple days ago and switched from the 60kw to the performance and they were eager to help. no update on delivery though, but i told them i really would like it this year.

 

[ahimberg]

It does seem strange that they would keep full speed on the 85s, with it seeming like they have built almost all that are on order. Perhaps they'll be building 85s for EU or something if they run out for US.

i'm still holding out hope that tesla is just being conservative in their communication here and will see something by early Feb.

 

[Ceilidh]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the complete production time from start to finish for a Model S at this point? Does it really take 5 weeks to put a car from start to finish through the assembly line? I understand that some things may take a couple days, like baking the paint coats and such, but I cannot imagine that a single car takes 5 weeks at this stage of the game.

So if the 60 kWh batteries enter into production "in early January," then why would it be February before someone could pick one up at the Factory? By now, they have the sequence down, the checks are in place, the quality controls, etc. As I said above, I really don't think that building the 85 is all that different from the 60 when it comes down to assembling a car. And we know that they already have done it. The EPA needed a full production version to test for their certifications.

Perhaps there are many things I don't know about the auto industry. Perhaps there are many things about which I am naive and if I knew them then I would get this. But if that was the case, then Tesla could post a blog entry about the details of what the deal is with the 60 sized batteries.

I don't need to have my car first. But what is happening here is the same sensation as waiting a long time in line and then someone who thinks for some reason that they are more important cuts in line ahead of you. Except in this case, it is like everyone in line behind me cut in line ahead of me when I was one of the first in line. Life ain't fair, but this is a particularly good example of that concept.

Cheers.

 

[Sidney]

Hmmmmmmm. Frustrating that TMCs Left Hand still has no idea what the Right is doing. I would have thought that by now they would have got the idea that this is extremely irritating to their customers. George B. : Take a hint. FIX THIS ISSUE.

Would be much easier to deal with certain delays than uncertain ones in limbo. I also frankly cannot afford an 85 kWh battery, but having placed my reservation the first week or so that they were available about 3 1/2 years ago, I will reiterate that this feels like not so much love for being an early supporter. The more that Tesla jerks people around, the worse their reputation will be. As a shareholder, this worries me. It seems like they could have fixed this by now. They have had months to correct the issue of inconsistent disseminated information. Ugh.

I too have a dying car that I would have just been rid of and now will need to fork out a bunch of extra cash to repair first then sell whenever Tesla decides to make my car. I'm not so sure they have any intention of hurrying up on the 60 kWh batteries because it seems to me that if these customers were a priority equal with the 85 kWh customers, then as soon as the EPA had certified the battery, it should have entered the production line.

The tray is the same size in the end. How much harder can it be to fit the same sized tray into the production sequence? They have the most advanced robots in the world. Come on now. Something here is not adding up.

Still excited for the car, but as a Tesla fan due to being an Earth lover rather than to keep up with the Joneses, each day more with an ICE car is another day my great great great great grandchildren will have to deal with the atmospheric mess they inherit, partially on my account.

Cheers.

I have the same feeling and have been trying to hold it in for a while now...
From Tesla's perspective, revenue is their top priority and 85 kWh provides that. But from customer's perspective, it sure seems like a typical bait-and-switch! I got lured in with a $49,000 advertised sticker but the only way to get an S today is to fork over another $20k for a 85 kWh. There is no reason to delay another two or three months before start delivering 60 kWh cars. Enough is enough...
Sorry for sounding negative - it's more about frustration than anything else.

 

[shokunin]

Fielded another call from Tesla a little while ago. Asked the rep for a firm commitment that, if I do switch to 85 (and he didn't suggest anything to the effect that I cannot), I'd get it in early January (with pickup at the factory). He suggested that, given my low sequence number, priority could possibly be given for early Jan assembly, but, he had to check with higher-ups.

Now, got the followup call: there are no guarantees according to him even if they could prioritize it and push it through given that there may be supply chain impact/considerations (?). He assured me that I'm destined to be one of the first few 60s to be built and that, there may not be more than 3 weeks separating a 85 delivery (if I were to switch) to the 60.

Oh well. I don't see much of a point in switching now and will have to rent a second car or something for some unknown period.

I'm telling myself to never, never, never put myself and family in such a situation again - this has been one long, agonizing experience All for a bloody car!

Sorry to hear of your frustrations gg, it's been a heck of a roller coaster. I thought Sigs had it bad with sequences out of order by several hundred, looks like P's are out by several thousand.

Sadly, someone at Tesla DOES know the expected/desired rampup and production schedule, but I'm sure it's a closely guarded list based on a number of factors. For sure this is not communicated to DS's since they don't want to commit to anything.

Have you looked at renting a Rav4EV just to get you into the EV groove?

 

[SteveH]

I was pretty frustrated when I read what gg was told yesterday, but have since calmed down. These boards are full of information from junior TM staff that wasn't exactly true. I'm not blaming them, it's just that I don't think they have any more actual knowledge than we do so they tend to rely on rumor and speculation and reading between the lines just like we do.

The last official communication we've had said,

60 kWh Model S with Active Air Suspension will phase into production in January 2013

and

Once we begin producing Model S with each option, your sequence number and order date will determine your placement in the build schedule. We will be producing about 400 cars per week as each option phases into production, so cars will flow fairly quickly once production of a particular option begins.

I'm going to take those two statements at face value, which means to me that Tesla is going to start producing 60's in January and crank them out until we catch up with the 85s. Other than all production goals being shifted by 2 months, Tesla has actually been remarkably good about meeting deadlines for being a new company. They also seem to be exceeded production goals now. I may setting myself up for frustration and disappointment, but right now I'm planning getting my car the first week of February at the latest.

 

[Ceilidh]

Sorry for sounding negative - it's more about frustration than anything else.

This is true.

On the one hand, I am acutely aware that I am lucky to have been born in a place where I had opportunities to end up still more lucky enough to be in a position where I am whining about the fact that I am not getting my Model S fast enough. Most certainly a 1st world problem.

Somewhere in Africa right now there is a kid with no parents and no home and no food with a belly full of worms hoping he won't be recruited by the local rebel army at the age of 8. I could just as easily been born that kid, and think about that kind of stuff all the time. So it is kinda hard to get uppity about my Tesla with that perspective.

On the other hand, there is the human tendency to seek a sensation of fair treatment given one's current situation. Pretty hard to turn off.

I think I need to go find a quiet evening corner and a nice neat glass of Talisker. Then I can chill out and wait patiently with the rest of you.

Cheers.

 

[Babylonfive]

<snip>
I'm going to take those two statements at face value, which means to me that Tesla is going to start producing 60's in January and crank them out until we catch up with the 85s. Other than all production goals being shifted by 2 months, Tesla has actually been remarkably good about meeting deadlines for being a new company. They also seem to be exceeded production goals now. I may setting myself up for frustration and disappointment, but right now I'm planning getting my car the first week of February at the latest.

Steve, generally I agree with you, but I think there's an alternate interpretation of the Tesla statements. Basically, they don't have to 'catch-up' 60kwh deliveries to 85kwh reservation numbers to satisfy their commit. I read the commit as 'your reservation number will determine your place' in the 60kwh deliveries, and not necessarily in the aggregated deliveries.

This goes back into some of my earlier posts: will they crank 60s alone until the res numbers are in about the same range as 85s (as I infer you mean), or will they just crank both at some 'fair' ratio (50/50? 60/40?) and accept the splitting of the res number status for each separately? I've not seen or heard a definite answer to that question, even though I've asked several times.

 

[Tempus]

Steve, generally I agree with you, but I think there's an alternate interpretation of the Tesla statements. Basically, they don't have to 'catch-up' 60kwh deliveries to 85kwh reservation numbers to satisfy their commit. I read the commit as 'your reservation number will determine your place' in the 60kwh deliveries, and not necessarily in the aggregated deliveries.

This goes back into some of my earlier posts: will they crank 60s alone until the res numbers are in about the same range as 85s (as I infer you mean), or will they just crank both at some 'fair' ratio (50/50? 60/40?) and accept the splitting of the res number status for each separately? I've not seen or heard a definite answer to that question, even though I've asked several times.

it's a very good question, and one i'm obviously keen to get an answer to. My guess is we won't know until we start seeing the 60's get delivery windows.

Overall, i'm trying to take be zen about it *grin*. I'm happy and excited for all the folks getting their cars now, and i'm not worried about when mine will show up. Of course, if we get well into January, and we keep seeing cars in the 5-10k range and above getting deliveries before us, my outlook might change. I REALLY hope they focus on making up that gap once the 60 kwh batteries are put into production.

 

[jvonbokel]

Those rich suckers fell for the 300-mile-range carrot and forked out atleast $8k-$10k more to subsidize Tesla's business/existence for the rest of us :tongue:

I'm certainly not rich, and I don't like to think of myself as a sucker, but seeing Kipernicus' post does make me feel a little less excited about my choice to go with the 85kWh pack. Strangely, though, I do kind of like the idea that I'm subsidizing Telsa's business for others.

John

 

[Brian H]

I'm certainly not rich, and I don't like to think of myself as a sucker, but seeing Kipernicus' post does make me feel a little less excited about my choice to go with the 85kWh pack. Strangely, though, I do kind of like the idea that I'm subsidizing Telsa's business for others.

John

Well, a lot of K.'s "Only...." items could be rather important for some people. A 1/6 accel boost ain't peanuts, e.g.

 

[Iz]

Assuming the 60s begin to roll off on February 1st we will also need to know how many 60s were reserved for the first 3000 or so general production. A good percentage of what is posted on this forum is from 85s. However, not everyone who has a reservation posts. My guess is about 1000 of those are 60 kWh. Based on that, I will have 500+ 60s before my vehicle rolls off (not factoring in air suspension).

 

[setritt]

i like to think that i'm paying 25k more for added performance which comes with a nicer interior and 20% more range. makes me think it's a better investment that way - mind games.

 

[giants2001]

First post on TMC Forums. Enjoying the wealth of information here and appreciate how well its organized. Looking forward to hearing good news for 2013 60kw deliveries. I was given a window of march/april from a Tesla Rep over the phone.

...anxiously awaiting P3831. Garage is ready!