After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

[ljbad4life]

I think we need another qualifier to this question which is price paid. The Amount paid would be directly proportionate to dissatisfaction.

I paid $3k for EAP which is absolutely worth it, then I grabbed the FSD upgrade for 3k during a FSD "sale" 4 years ago. For $3K EAP I feel like I got every penny worth, even a bit more. The $3k for FSD, I did get an upgraded computer, So I feel it was somewhat worth it. If I paid $10k or more I would feel cheated and if I had leased this car I would be furious (I'm coming up on 5 years which normally would be the the time to turn the car over).

 

[scratch]

Here's what bejiggers me about FSD.

My cousin in San Diego uses it every day without issue. Makes turns, changes lanes, comes to him at the parking lot, etc. He now calls his car Kitt.

My friend in Richmond has a hard time with it. Some of the roads he drives regularly have no acceleration lanes, drivers literally need to wait for a break in the traffic. The car recognizes this is not safe and doesn't know what to do. Some of the roads near his house have poor markings, the car sometimes want to drive up the middle of the road while going around blind corners.

My sense is FSD can't be trained for localities where the roads are poorly maintained or just plain dangerous to begin with. Getting out of beta could mean geofencing so it can't be engaged in these locations. Or at least identifying the bad spots and disengaging when it's there.

My question is: would geofencing constitute failure / lack of delivery? Did Tesla ever make a specific claim the system would work everywhere without issue? Ford, for example, has been rolling out it's BlueCruise self-driving app region by region. This strategy was never announced, it's just the reality people are forced to live with.

If I paid $15k for FSD and lived in a place where it could never work, I would expect Tesla to return the money as a fair remedy. Would only consider joining a suit if Tesla promised that it would work where I live. The first situation is speculation, they tried their best. The second is fraud.

 

[gearchruncher]

IIRC when I signed the flurry of paperwork buying my MY, deep in the fine print was a whole paragraph about any dispute with Tesla about anything would be resolved with mediation, not lawsuits. I assume, having read and agreed to that, I am bound by that agreement and considering any lawsuit, class action or not, is moot?

What it actually says is that you have 30 days to opt out of the arbitration agreement by informing Tesla in writing.
If you do that, you can join a class action. If you don't, you can't.
However, arbitration is free to you and costs Tesla money. If you feel you have a valid claim, open an arbitration dispute.

 

[CyberGus]

My sense is FSD can't be trained for localities where the roads are poorly maintained or just plain dangerous to begin with.

Tesla could certainly insert "special cases" into the maps, but there is little value in such workarounds when the software is still in beta. Any such workarounds might make for a better experience, but will make the NN harder to train.

 

[Maxpilot]

Basically Elon bought his Twitter toy with the money he received from sales of FSD.

 

[hooty]

Is there just the one FSD class action lawsuit in California? Or are other are states/countries?

 

[Knightshade]

Is there just the one FSD class action lawsuit in California? Or are other are states/countries?

Is there even one? I've seen a few reports about lawyers TRYING to get certified as a class, but have any actually been certified?

 

[hooty]

Tesla, Musk sued by shareholders over self-driving safety claims

Tesla, Musk sued by shareholders over self-driving safety claims​

The lawsuit accuses the automaker and CEO of overstating the effectiveness and safety of Autopilot and Full Self-Driving technologies.​

Tesla and its CEO Elon Musk were sued Monday by shareholders who accused them of overstating the effectiveness and safety of their electric vehicles' Autopilot and Full Self-Driving technologies.

In a proposed class action filed in San Francisco federal court, shareholders said Tesla defrauded them over four years with false and misleading statements that concealed how its technologies, suspected as a possible cause of multiple fatal crashes, "created a serious risk of accident and injury."

They said Tesla's share price fell several times as the truth became known, including after the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration began investigating the technologies, and reports that the Securities and Exchange Commission was investigating Musk's Autopilot claims.

 

[hooty]

Tesla is sued by drivers over alleged false Autopilot, Full Self-Driving claims

Tesla, Musk sued by shareholders over self-driving safety claims

Tesla Inc and its Chief Executive Elon Musk were sued on Monday by shareholders who accused them of overstating the effectiveness and safety of their electric vehicles' Autopilot and Full Self-Driving technologies.

www.reuters.com

 

[Knightshade]

In a proposed class action filed in San Francisco

Proposed class action.

Not an actual one.

Anybody can file to propose a class action. It's actually having the court certify your case as one that's the hard part.


Also that one the class isn't FSD buyers- it's shareholders they claim were hurt by share price declining from not delivering FSD.

 

[legendsk]

As bad as I hate lawyers? Long after the last star has winked out. I am all in on Tesla stock and you're suggesting I would consider hiring a bunch to effectively sue myself? !!!

 

[Genie]

As bad as I hate lawyers? Long after the last star has winked out. I am all in on Tesla stock and you're suggesting I would consider hiring a bunch to effectively sue myself? !!!

What do the merits of a case have to do with anyone’s portfolio? I hold some Norfolk Southern and it looks to me like they need a lot of suing.

 

[Matias]

https://www.tesla.com/order/download-order-agreement

Page 2

Aren't vast majority of Tesla buyers out of class action possibility?

 

[hooty]

https://www.tesla.com/order/download-order-agreement

Page 2

Aren't vast majority of Tesla buyers out of class action possibility?




View attachment 928560

Judge in court decides that

 

[dbldwn02]

https://www.tesla.com/order/download-order-agreement

Page 2

Aren't vast majority of Tesla buyers out of class action possibility?




View attachment 928560

Nah...some Judge and/or law firm made me a part of a class action I didn't even want to be a part of, back in 2018-2019. It was a major pain to opt-out of the class action itself.

 

[EVNow]

As bad as I hate lawyers? Long after the last star has winked out. I am all in on Tesla stock and you're suggesting I would consider hiring a bunch to effectively sue myself? !!!

I'd never consider suing a company for such frivolous things - not the one you are all-in on, anyway.

What do the merits of a case have to do with anyone’s portfolio? I hold some Norfolk Southern and it looks to me like they need a lot of suing.

"some" <> "all-in".

 

[JHCCAZ]

you're suggesting I would consider hiring a bunch to effectively sue myself? !!!

What do the merits of a case have to do with anyone’s portfolio? I hold some Norfolk Southern and it looks to me like they need a lot of suing.

I am no lawyer, and I certainly would never sue myself.
But occasionally I do a dumb thing, and then I hold myself in contempt..

 

[gearchruncher]

Nah...some Judge and/or law firm made me a part of a class action I didn't even want to be a part of, back in 2018-2019. It was a major pain to opt-out of the class action itself.

Explain "major pain." Every single class action I have ever been part of includes a simple description of how to opt out, usually just going to a website, or worst case sending a letter.

For instance, like this: https://www.ssrplaw.com/files/bissell-opt-out_form.pdf

 

[dbldwn02]

Explain "major pain." Every single class action I have ever been part of includes a simple description of how to opt out, usually just going to a website, or worst case sending a letter.

For instance, like this: https://www.ssrplaw.com/files/bissell-opt-out_form.pdf

Sent one tracked letter..."not received" even though it showed delivered
Sent registered letter..."not received in time" even though it showed signed for a week prior to cutoff.
Missed cut off date.
Called law firm multiple times over the course of the next week to try to get out of the lawsuit
Asked for exception since I was able to prove a letter was delivered before the date. They said ok and sent confirmation of opt out.
Fast forward several months and I get $180 check in the mail for class action.
Call again. And again....you get the point.
Firm had to "get permission from Tesla" to remove me since case was closed already
Finally got check voided and further confirmation that I wasn't a part of the class action.
I think this counts as "major pain" relative to what was supposed to be a simple task.

 

[hooty]

Not sure if any proposed class action has moved forward.
Others have posted individual legal action