ALL CyberTruck discussion

[defc0n]

So we are fighting over whether it will be 2170s vs 18650s in the cybertruck? With the apparent battery cost savings, I’d be very surprised to see that in the 18650 form factor. Also keep in mind just how far away we are from the first one of these things actually being delivered.

I personally don’t see those low prices possible with current cell manufacturing process?

 

[lascavarian]

Another technical question:

The CT does not have Aero wheel covers. My understanding is that the Aero covers help prevent a vacuum forming under the Model 3 body (having to do with ground clearance I presume) and can extend range about 4%.

The higher ground clearance of the CT may result in eliminating the vacuum without the help from the Aero covers so no need.

Or maybe there is some other reason that the Aero covers are not needed. Edit to add, is it possible the lift is adjusted dynamically to minimize drag at any given speed?

 

[lascavarian]

This may have been posted earlier but here is in writing the opinions/analysis (I think he likes it) of Jack Rickard on the CT:

Tesla Kristallnacht - The CyberTruck Wardrobe Malfunction - EVTV Motor Verks

 

[MP3Mike]

Another technical question:

The CT does not have Aero wheel covers. My understanding is that the Aero covers help prevent a vacuum forming under the Model 3 body (having to do with ground clearance I presume) and can extend range about 4%.

The higher ground clearance of the CT may result in eliminating the vacuum without the help from the Aero covers so no need.

Or maybe there is some other reason that the Aero covers are not needed. Edit to add, is it possible the lift is adjusted dynamically to minimize drag at any given speed?

It looks to me like it did have aero covers... Maybe not as aero as the Model 3...

 

[lascavarian]

It looks to me like it did have aero covers... Maybe not as aero as the Model 3...

I am with you on the covers but I don't know about the Aero part. Looks like the tires match the covers however.

There is a good shot of the CT tire cover in this article on Teslarti.

Auto expert dubs Tesla Cybertruck as Elon Musk's boldest, greatest creation yet

It could also be that the front attack angle serves to push air under the CT when at speed reducing the need for the Aero effect.

Edit to remove Teslarati copyright photo and provide link.

 

[ReddykwRun]

So we are fighting over whether it will be 2170s vs 18650s in the cybertruck? With the apparent battery cost savings, I’d be very surprised to see that in the 18650 form factor. Also keep in mind just how far away we are from the first one of these things actually being delivered.

I personally don’t see those low prices possible with current cell manufacturing process?

How about the improvements made possible with the Dry Electrode Battery assembly process and the "Skunk Works" knowledge base of Maxwell technologies? I can see a bright light on the horizon and it is powered by Maxwell and not to be confused with the sun.

 

[sparcs]

Elon just tweeted out that the coefficient of drag could hit 0.30

Link to Elon's tweet

"With extreme effort, Cybertruck might hit a 0.30 drag coefficient, which would be insane for a truck. Requires tweaking many small details."

 

[Electroman]

0.30?

"Waiter! can I have whatever Mr. Musk is having?"

 

[StealthP3D]

0.30?

"Waiter! can I have whatever Mr. Musk is having?"

I suspect a person could drink all the nootropic drinks they could get their hands on and Elon Musk's brain function would still run circles around more ordinary people.

Musk is a person who learned and understood enough about a wide enough variety of subjects and in a deep enough way and starting at an early enough age, that his further learning and understanding were leveraged and more exponential in terms of deep understanding. A person can't just drink a smart drink and be on Musk's level in terms of understanding how the world works. It is necessary to have paid your dues first (in terms of putting in the hours of deep learning at an early age).

But if you want to try to prove me wrong, have at it:
10 Nootropical Beverage Products For High Brain Function

Edit: I know you were trying to say there is no way to get the Cd of the Cybertruck anywhere near .30 but my whole point is that I think Musk understands aerodynamics a WHOLE LOT BETTER than you do. Aerodynamic drag coefficients are not always intuitive in the way ordinary people might assume. By "ordinary people" I refer to people who don't have a deep understanding of how aerodynamic drag works.

For example:

What has a higher Cd, a VW Beetle or a VW Microbus?

VW Beetle Cd: 0.46
VW Microbus: 0.42

Typical Formula 1 race car Cd: 0.7-1.0 (not a typo)
Typical Semi-Tractor Cd: 0.61

Yes, a Formula 1 race car has a higher drag coefficient than a semi tractor. I think the Cybertruck has a very good shape for optimizing the Cd with little tweaks to achieve a Cd close to 0.30.

 

[printf42]

Yet another YouTube video:

CT is really breaking the Internet now, this one is noticeable because:

• He is a Ram 3500 owner
• He drove his truck 2.5 times around the country
• So this means a real truck owner is switching.
• His channel has 3.3 million sub and has nothing to do with trucks, yet he made a lengthy video about it.

CT as a meme machine already earned back whatever resources were put into it.

 

[defc0n]

I suspect a person could drink all the nootropic drinks they could get their hands on and Elon Musk's brain function would still run circles around more ordinary people.

Musk is a person who learned and understood enough about a wide enough variety of subjects and in a deep enough way and starting at an early enough age, that his further learning and understanding were leveraged and more exponential in terms of deep understanding. A person can't just drink a smart drink and be on Musk's level in terms of understanding how the world works. It is necessary to have paid your dues first (in terms of putting in the hours of deep learning at an early age).

But if you want to try to prove me wrong, have at it:
10 Nootropical Beverage Products For High Brain Function

Edit: I know you were trying to say there is no way to get the Cd of the Cybertruck anywhere near .30 but my whole point is that I think Musk understands aerodynamics a WHOLE LOT BETTER than you do. Aerodynamic drag coefficients are not always intuitive in the way ordinary people might assume. By "ordinary people" I refer to people who don't have a deep understanding of how aerodynamic drag works.

For example:

What has a higher Cd, a VW Beetle or a VW Microbus?

VW Beetle Cd: 0.46
VW Microbus: 0.42

Typical Formula 1 race car Cd: 0.7-1.0 (not a typo)
Typical Semi-Tractor Cd: 0.61

Yes, a Formula 1 race car has a higher drag coefficient than a semi tractor. I think the Cybertruck has a very good shape for optimizing the Cd with little tweaks to achieve a Cd close to 0.30.

Yep, those wings on race cars produce drag (and more importantly, downforce) for a very good reason! Reasons that don’t matter as much for a cybertruck that’s main use case should be towing large loads and not high speed cornering.

I think Jack Rickard mentioned this in his video, but pretty much everyone on the internets (me included) don’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to aerodynamics.

 

[jerry33]

Yep, those wings on race cars produce drag (and more importantly, downforce) for a very good reason! Reasons that don’t matter as much for a cybertruck that’s main use case should be towing large loads and not high speed cornering.

While abstractly true, cornering power has a lot to do with the trailer not jackknifing.

 

[StealthP3D]

While abstractly true, cornering power has a lot to do with the trailer not jackknifing.

Aerodynamic downforce is not needed to safely tow at legal speeds as the tongue weight is designed to keep everything stable without relying on aero-downforce.

Electric trailer brakes are what is needed to prevent jack-knifing when encountering ice. We haven't heard whether the Cybertruck will be equipped with automatic electronic trailer brake control but I imagine it will be. Jack-knifing in non-icy conditions is typically driver error when maneuvering at low speeds. None of this is any different than the issues currently faced by existing trucks.

 

[heltok]

Just noticed that there are more threads and more posts in the Cybertruck subforum than in the Model Y subforum.

I expect the halo from the cybertruck will be gigantic with lots of sales of all current models and future models thanks to this.

 

[PACEMD]

The Cybertruck is bigger than the Model Y, literally..........

 

[Electroman]

Well, keep rolling the 'Disagrees', but I will say this:

CT will sell well beating Rivian, F150 EV and other imposters. it will make some money for Tesla at some point. But it will NOT make dent on the big 3 truck sales.

Why? Because when you tow with even half the load the range will fall dramatically by as much as 50%. And once the usable range is less than 200, it becomes less useful, more so in winter. So part time trucksters, who occasionally go to Home depot or tow a boat once a year, I am sure CT will be fine. But those that depend on a truck for a living day in and day out, having less than 200 miles range on a cold winter day with 3000 pounds on the bed, is a show stopper.

I thought this is a fair and balanced article: What Ford F-150 owners think of the Tesla Cybertruck

TLDR: F150 owners love what they saw in the reveal, but skeptical about the winter range under load. Unless they actually see it in action through a harsh winter.

 

[JRP3]

What percentage of truck buyers actually tow? As you're out driving notice the percentage of pickup trucks with a trailer, it's tiny. What percentage of trucks are actually used for work? What percentage of those work trucks ever tow anything, and of those that do, how many do more than local towing of medium sized equipment trailers? And finally, of all those trucks that actually do meaningful towing on a regular basis, what percentage of those have to deal with severe winter temperatures? I think the percentage of trucking which can't be served by the Cyber is rather small, and thus the Cyber can in fact make a big dent in the big 3 truck sales as more and more people catch on.

 

[Electroman]

What percentage of truck buyers actually tow? As you're out driving notice the percentage of pickup trucks with a trailer, it's tiny. What percentage of trucks are actually used for work? What percentage of those work trucks ever tow anything, and of those that do, how many do more than local towing of medium sized equipment trailers? And finally, of all those trucks that actually do meaningful towing on a regular basis, what percentage of those have to deal with severe winter temperatures? I think the percentage of trucking which can't be served by the Cyber is rather small, and thus the Cyber can in fact make a big dent in the big 3 truck sales as more and more people catch on.

Here is the fallacy. It doesn't matter most don't attach any trailer at all, or rarely do. The fact that they may need - or think they may need someday - to tow something long distance, is enough for people to not consider. Same reason why any cars with 150 mile range like the Leafs don't sell well, even though most drive much less than 100 miles everyday.

Again it is not just the towing, but the impact on the range with load on the bed.

 

[StealthP3D]

Well, keep rolling the 'Disagrees', but I will say this:

CT will sell well beating Rivian, F150 EV and other imposters. it will make some money for Tesla at some point. But it will NOT make dent on the big 3 truck sales.

I disagree. Mostly because the reasons you give do not reflect the way it is likely to unfold. Most pickup sales are not for long-distance towing and the Cybertruck will easily compete and displace the functionality of 90% of current pickup sales. The one reason Cybertruck sales will not immediately eviscerate traditional sales is because it will be production limited for at least 2 years (if not 5 years). But in the longer term, traditional trucks cannot compete. As soon as Tesla has the battery and production capacity to satisfy demand, sales of traditional body on frame trucks, electrified or not, will be impacted to the degree that they will no longer be profitable without further raising of prices. In other words, it's only a matter of time before the traditional truck market collapses. It only takes an impact of around 30% of sales to make the current pickup truck business model collapse.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

This video just re-enforces my decision to reserve the Triple, with 500 miles of range. Most of the trucks in this comparison exceed 500 mile of range, but the quickly drop for the same reasons the EV range drops. The smallest Ford gas tank is 23 gallons * 20 MPG - yields 460 miles of range, the next tank up is 26 gallons * 20 MPG yields 520 miles and the largest tank is 36 gallons (RAPTOR), which gets 16 MPG yields a 576 miles (downhill with a tailwind driving the speed limit - never seen a RAPTOR do that in my life), so the CT is highly competitive.
Source: Gas savings will sell every truck Tesla can make until 2024

Thank you @Electroman for mentioning TLDR, I had never heard of them before.

Comments on the video: Off-roading with street tires on the X which is essentially a minivan was stupid. The trailer form factor they chose for the test couldn't have been worse, but it did represent a worst case scenario, however they never changed their speed to accommodate their goals (which as all Tesla owners know can happen when pushed to the limit).

This video re-enforces what I already knew, the Bollinger range is useless (200 Miles), the Rivian too small, the Model X is a minivan, however the CyberTruck pretty much fits my use case for weekend towing of a car to Summit Point Raceway, getting firewood, camping with 16 inches of ground clearance and 35" wheels, and being a suburban homeowner. I don't need a Diesel long hauler, to tow a horse trailer up a 7% grade here in Virginia. Most trucks and SUV's here in NVA are mommy mobiles going to soccer, you bet they will buy a Tesla.

2 Triples reserved (wife wants one too, just please make the damn seatbelts height adjustable)