All discussion of Nikola Motors

[ammulder]

OK, in fairness, Trevor ALSO says in the very next breath that they have a great partner building their factory for them and three great OEMs offering to build the Badger for them, and a great supplier for their Hydrogen equipment...

But come on, that counts as Vertical Integration, right?

 

[JRP3]

Nikola video of the "Influencer" meeting. Seems to be deleting comments and the link says "unlisted" so I copied the comment I left just in case.

Video gone, he figured out how to make it private

 

[BigPeePee]

Naw, naw, dude, Nikola is all about Vertical Integration. Trevor keeps saying so.

It's confusing, because he also said he's working on outsourcing parts at the same time.

 

[ammulder]

It's confusing, because he also said he's working on outsourcing parts at the same time.

Sorry, that was my deadpan voice.

 

[smorgasbord]

Here's another view of the Nikola influencer day:

This is from TeslaJoy. She had to turn off commenting because it was so brutal. And if you watch, you'll understand why.

It's clear to me she doesn't know what's talking about, so I skipped to the actual footage, which is all Trevor all the time. He did let the Infotainment guy, Issac, talk and demo, but you can see Trevor wince when Issac says "As you can see it's reasonably responsive."

One thing about influencers like TeslaJoy is that they often don't know what they're covering. Like a medium screen in the truck is somehow like the 3 larger, hi-res screens in the Crew Dragon (which she called "Dragon Crew")? I could go on and on, but it's just not worth it.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah she's horribly clueless and completely taken in by Trevor's schpiel

 

[vikings123]

Here's another view of the Nikola influencer day:

This is from TeslaJoy. She had to turn off commenting because it was so brutal. And if you watch, you'll understand why.

It's clear to me she doesn't know what's talking about, so I skipped to the actual footage, which is all Trevor all the time. He did let the Infotainment guy, Issac, talk and demo, but you can see Trevor wince when Issac says "As you can see it's reasonably responsive."

One thing about influencers like TeslaJoy is that they often don't know what they're covering. Like a medium screen in the truck is somehow like the 3 larger, hi-res screens in the Crew Dragon (which she called "Dragon Crew")? I could go on and on, but it's just not worth it.

Yep I saw some of the clips on twitter and thought there was so much misinformation especially the one where she compares charging a model 3 to charging a semi and how it would take a day or two to charge a semi. No idea how she was picked to be part of the group but it’s clear Trevor got to her and she is now just talking gibberish.

 

[JRP3]

Someone or Reddit did a deep dive into Trevor's past. As expected he seems to be a serial scammer.

Anyone think NKLA is just Upillar reincarnated? : RealNikola

 

[heltok]

 

[JRP3]

Brutal

 

[dl003]

OK, in fairness, Trevor ALSO says in the very next breath that they have a great partner building their factory for them and three great OEMs offering to build the Badger for them, and a great supplier for their Hydrogen equipment...

But come on, that counts as Vertical Integration, right?

I think he invented a hybrid business structure: the Vertical Partnership, in which you're on top making all the profit while your partners are deep on the bottom doing all the work. Didn't you hear him saying his business was profitability-driven? Must be nice.

 

[ggr]

I think he invented a hybrid business structure: the Vertical Partnership, in which you're on top making all the profit while your partners are deep on the bottom doing all the work. Didn't you hear him saying his business was profitability-driven? Must be nice.

Sounds like Wal-Mart.

 

[vikings123]

NKLA and GM form strategic partnership. Badger to be made by GM.

Nikola And General Motors Form Strategic Partnership; Nikola Badger To Be Engineered And Manufactured By General Motors

 

[mtndrew1]

I saw an interesting twitter thread about this partnership.

Basically GM gets to sell a bunch of pickups under a new brand with the $7500 tax credit that they no longer qualify for in-house. The $2B, worst case, gets them about a quarter million pickups with the full tax credit. Net zero cost.

All GM platforms and IP for a stock deal that they can sell off over time. Kind of brilliant, really.

https://twitter.com/enn_nafnlaus/status/1303309538444152832?s=20

 

[MP3Mike]

I saw an interesting twitter thread about this partnership.

Basically GM gets to sell a bunch of pickups under a new brand with the $7500 tax credit that they no longer qualify for in-house. The $2B, worst case, gets them about a quarter million pickups with the full tax credit. Net zero cost.

All GM platforms and IP for a stock deal that they can sell off over time. Kind of brilliant, really.

https://twitter.com/enn_nafnlaus/status/1303309538444152832?s=20

Only, I don't think it works that way. I seem to recall that it is manufacturer based, not based on who sells it or what name gets put on it. And GM has already met their limit based on sales across their different brands. (They didn't get a separate allocation for Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, etc.)

 

[mtndrew1]

Only, I don't think it works that way. I seem to recall that it is manufacturer based, not based on who sells it or what name gets put on it. And GM has already met their limit based on sales across their different brands. (They didn't get a separate allocation for Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, etc.)

Nikola isn’t one of GM’s brands. GM is selling vehicles cost-plus to Nikola.

GM gets to sell a BEV pickup at full invoice to Nikola which then sells it to the public. They can sidestep the entire manufacturer limit because they’re just selling a rolling chassis to another automaker.

Nikola will be the “manufacturer” slapping a body and VIN on a chassis and GM can amortize their BEV tech investments because the $7500 is rolled into the whole process on the Nikola side.

Very little risk for GM. Nikola, of course, remains a farce.

 

[ammulder]

I thought Trevor's whole pitch on the Badger was that the OEM partner would bring not just manufacturing, but also their dealer network and service facilities and leasing and etc. So it didn't sound like they were going to buy finished trucks from GM and sell and service them via a "Nikola" dealer network.

Of course, their business model may have changed.

 

[mtndrew1]

I thought Trevor's whole pitch on the Badger was that the OEM partner would bring not just manufacturing, but also their dealer network and service facilities and leasing and etc. So it didn't sound like they were going to buy finished trucks from GM and sell and service them via a "Nikola" dealer network.

Of course, their business model may have changed.

Dealers and service departments are not part of GM. They are independent businesses that can sign up for a Nikola franchise just like a Hyundai franchise.

GM selling cost-plus BEV pickups to Nikola does not mean that there can’t be a partnership with GM dealers. Since the platforms and repair processes will be the same there’s little reason for a GM dealer to avoid slapping another sign on the facade.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Nikola isn’t one of GM’s brands. GM is selling vehicles cost-plus to Nikola.

GM gets to sell a BEV pickup at full invoice to Nikola which then sells it to the public. They can sidestep the entire manufacturer limit because they’re just selling a rolling chassis to another automaker.

Nikola will be the “manufacturer” slapping a body and VIN on a chassis and GM can amortize their BEV tech investments because the $7500 is rolled into the whole process on the Nikola side.

Very little risk for GM. Nikola, of course, remains a farce.

It's a whole truck, not a rolling chassis. NKLA says they now won't have to build a factory for Badger, so they won't be "slapping a body on it". Nor would that make sense. BIW, paint and assembly are the hard things (just ask Tesla) and GM would be 100x better than NKLA at that.

I don't think this matters for the $7500, though, and you can rest assured the lawyers are on top of the issue. One article said GM would make tens of thousands per year, so 200k will take some time. GM isn't giving NKLA cash, they're investing 2b of R&D, factory capacity, etc. into the project. Most of which they'd be doing anyway, of course.

NKLA basically becomes an online dealership with exclusive trademarks, badging and design elements.

 

[mtndrew1]

It's a whole truck, not a rolling chassis. NKLA says they now won't have to build a factory for Badger, so they won't be "slapping a body on it". Nor would that make sense. BIW, paint and assembly are the hard things (just ask Tesla) and GM would be 100x better than NKLA at that.

I don't think this matters for the $7500, though, and you can rest assured the lawyers are on top of the issue. One article said GM would make tens of thousands per year, so 200k will take some time. GM isn't giving NKLA cash, they're investing 2b of R&D, factory capacity, etc. into the project. Most of which they'd be doing anyway, of course.

NKLA basically becomes an online dealership with exclusive trademarks, badging and design elements.

Nissan sells NV200s to GM as complete vehicles as the Chevrolet City Express. These count as GM vehicles for fuel economy averages which is why GM buys them cost-plus from Nissan. They are literally Nissans with different badges.

Honda used to sell Odysseys to GM’s Isuzu brand (Oasis) and GM sold Rodeos to Honda (Passport). Both cost-plus, both to move units in a favorable segment for fuel economy benefits.

Mazda sold Mazda 2s to Toyota as Corollas until very recently. Same deal.

This looks to be a similar arrangement. The money GM is investing in tooling and production will be the same as their own branded GM BEV pickups. Some of them will just be sold at cost-plus to Nikola.