Another "Tesla killer" fading already?

[doghousePVD]

It may be appealing to a first time electric driver who already has ICE cars, won’t travel out of town with it (you can’t even charge faster than 21 miles an hour at the dealers now - there are no chargers greater than 11KW yet), doesn’t miss the performance of a normal Audi, and doesn’t mind the space ship noise, oh and the model I had was $94k - so $40K more than a comparably equipped Q5. I had a long talk with folks at the dealer and the owner of the store, it’s going to be a tough sale.... not to wish other EVs less success, but the product is just inferior and non-competitive at that price. The sales stats are bearing it out.

It can't charge at faster than 11 kw? [That's c. 45A, about the same as current S&X charge.] Won't it charge at a CCS DC charger at over 100kw?

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Length x Width:

Audi E-Tron: 4.90m x 1.94m
Model X: 5.05m x 2.00m
Model 3: 4.69m x 1.85m

It's much closer to a Model X than to a Model 3.

External dimensions are irrelevant. Internal volume is what matters

 

[kablammyman]

A friend of mine bought the etron recently. His wife says he really likes it, but I have not seen nor talked to him about it. I heard he forgets to plug it in. Ha!

Regarding range, I'm not so sure the 200 mile best is so outrageous for most drivers. For Tesla owners instructed to charge their battery to 80%, it puts you exactly in the 180 -200 mile range anyway for daily driving, which 99% of daily drivers likely don't use anyway. Long trips an issue? Park the etron and use the Benz.

my wife bought an etron recently. shes in love with it.

It REALLY is a nice car, so much tech and very fancy. The car has too many things to list, and I dont even know about the thigns my wife knows about the car that I dont...

BUT, I will say that I dont like the regen seems to be attached to a paddle shifter. It seems that that you must "down shift" each time you are off the accelerator if want the strong regen.

Also, the spaceship sound is hella loud from the outside, but in the car, its not very noticeable.

The range is great IMO, but I drive a rav4EV, so any new car will feel like it has unlimited battery, lol.

 

[RichieM]

I suspect it's gonna to be Rivian.

I think the big issue is dealers. The existing ICE dealers just don't know how to sell EV.

The Chevy Volt died because of DEALERS. They are clueless.

You need fresh blood. Fresh ways of doing things. That's partly why Tesla has succeeded to date.

I suspect Rivian will be similar. I mean really, 100,000 Preorders to Amazon.

Be interesting to watch how Rivian builds up it's dealer network and support structure.

To be honest Rivian and Tesla should strike a deal. Tesla has issues of course but it's a decade ahead in terms of Sales and Support (as bad as it is).

Rivian might strike a deal with Ford or something, but I think they will end up like eTron and Volt if they use existing ICE dealer network.

Small correction, the Volt died because the platform it was/is built on is being eliminated

 

[SO16]

I know the battery stuff got off topic, but thanks for sharing as I'm still learning. I keep my cars 10 years, and have flexibility in charging, so I'd like to do what's "right" for battery longevity, but my head is spinning trying to decipher everything I read on forums. I was trying to do the 20%-80% thing based on others' recommendations, and minimizing charging cycles. But a coworker who's 2013 S85 is over 120k said he charges to 90% every night and he's only lost 10% of range so far. I've already lost 5% at least based on the estimator, though half of that was when I upgraded to 28.2, so maybe Tesla tweaked the estimator? It did freak me out a bit, as I thought I was past the initial loss period and I'd start seeing more of a 1-2%/yr drop.

But now I'm charging to 90%, and recharging once I get below 100 miles of range (45 mile commute RT, so results in charging about twice a week). Gut feel is charging every night seems wrong - am I being too anal?

The largest range drop seems to happen within the first couple years. Then it levels off.

I lost 6% the first year and a half but now almost 3 years in, still at 6%.

42k miles 2017 S90D. Charge to 80% almost daily.

Stored winters at 50% plugged in the garage.

 

[mtndrew1]

The etron inventory discounts are starting to march past $8,500 before dealer negotiations.

The Audi looks like another IPace in the US market; nice car, slow seller, significant discounts. I’ve only seen two etrons since launch in EV-friendly Los Angeles.

 

[RedOctober]

They're beautiful cars, but much smaller than I thought they would be. It's more like a Model 3 than a Model X - nothing wrong with that, but in the reviews they always compared it to an X.

Taycan is replacing my Tesla - it has more range and is faster than my Performance Model S, so I see it as a more comfortable direct competitor to my previous electric car. I don't understand the "made for Europe" concept - what does this mean?

Open charging networks might be in their early phases of development, but so was Supercharging back in 2013. With Porsche pouring something like $30B into EA, it's going to keep growing quickly. I just don't see why Tesla hasn't offered an adapter to use it yet.

Guess we won’t be reading anymore comments from you once you switch to Porsche. You won’t be able to use the SC anymore, that’s part of owning a Tesla. Something you will have to wait several years before you can enjoy charging on their own network. The Taycan is a beautiful car and when use switch, purchase a blue one, very nice colour.

 

[Paul 666]

My colleague has an etron. He says it's better than the Model X in many ways (which he also has).

I mean yeah if you're a spec sheet internet racer then it's worse, but don't knock it until you drive it.

Can he explain why he likes it better? (I have never seen one but given you are posting on this thread where are the original poster makes a pretty good argument for the Tesla over e-tron. )

 

[Cheburashka]

I've seen quite a few.

Better interior, quieter ride, handles bumps better (he does not have the new Raven suspension), has more luxury features including some special fragrance dispenser. Basically drives and feels like an Audi. Apparently the ride is way smoother than in a Model X.

 

[Paul 666]

Would love to hear his thoughts directly if you can get him to join and post here. (Or just let him post here with a prefix "He, I'm the colleague with the etron…." )

They're beautiful cars, but much smaller than I thought they would be. It's more like a Model 3 than a Model X - nothing wrong with that, but in the reviews they always compared it to an X.

Taycan is replacing my Tesla - it has more range and is faster than my Performance Model S, so I see it as a more comfortable direct competitor to my previous electric car. I don't understand the "made for Europe" concept - what does this mean?

Open charging networks might be in their early phases of development, but so was Supercharging back in 2013. With Porsche pouring something like $30B into EA, it's going to keep growing quickly. I just don't see why Tesla hasn't offered an adapter to use it yet.

 

[Paul 666]

They're beautiful cars, but much smaller than I thought they would be. It's more like a Model 3 than a Model X - nothing wrong with that, but in the reviews they always compared it to an X.

Taycan is replacing my Tesla - it has more range and is faster than my Performance Model S, so I see it as a more comfortable direct competitor to my previous electric car. I don't understand the "made for Europe" concept - what does this mean?

Open charging networks might be in their early phases of development, but so was Supercharging back in 2013. With Porsche pouring something like $30B into EA, it's going to keep growing quickly. I just don't see why Tesla hasn't offered an adapter to use it yet.

After you buy a Tesla, the crummy things dealerships do just irks me. Hendrick Porsche in Charlotte charges a “dealership fee” of $699.00 just to be added to the list when they get one

They're beautiful cars, but much smaller than I thought they would be. It's more like a Model 3 than a Model X - nothing wrong with that, but in the reviews they always compared it to an X.

Taycan is replacing my Tesla - it has more range and is faster than my Performance Model S, so I see it as a more comfortable direct competitor to my previous electric car. I don't understand the "made for Europe" concept - what does this mean?

Open charging networks might be in their early phases of development, but so was Supercharging back in 2013. With Porsche pouring something like $30B into EA, it's going to keep growing quickly. I just don't see why Tesla hasn't offered an adapter to use it yet.

The problem with Porsche and other Evies is that you have to purchase them from a dealership. Hendrix Porsche in Charlotte charges a “dealer administration fee” of $699.00 Just to get on the list. This is in addition to buying the car. That sucks

 

[Chaserr]

You said that twice you said that twice

I still own my 911, the service experience at the dealer makes me shake my head at Tesla. I'm sure Tesla will get better again some day but if they were this bad years ago I wouldn't have one! Tesla does things differently but that's currently a disadvantage, competence needs to come before anything else.

I'm surprised more people are spreadinf fear on Taycan charging, people tried that back when I bought my Tesla but I never expected it from Tesla owners. CCS is already growing faster than supercharging ever did, thanks to dieselgate, and I wasn't worried back then when supercharging was only operational in a few cities. We're so spoiled now we've forgotten where we were when our cars were new I guess.

 

[brianman]

220 miles is more than my Performance Tesla after Tesla decided to downgrade it to roughly 63kWh. That's why it's impossible for me to consider a Tesla replacement - they haven't downgraded 2019 Performance cars yet but Tesla has been clear they they have no problem doing it later. I don't like being told years after the deal is done that my range and performance upgrades I purchased had an expiration date or needing to participate in a class action lawsuit to have my warranty honored.

This needs its own thread. I'd like to hear more about it.

 

[Chaserr]

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

It's probably the biggest news item Tesla will face in the next year. The NHTSA investigation could go very poorly for Tesla if they really did downgrade us to hide a recall.

 

[brianman]

CCS is already growing faster than supercharging ever did, thanks to dieselgate

links? maps?

 

[Chaserr]

ELectric America or something like that. Dieselgate stipulated they spend something absurd like ~$30,000,000,000 building a charge network so it's grown fast and will keep growing. They generally followed the supercharger network's path but IMHO they should fill in the gaps faster to gain some market in places Teslas are less common. Not my business though, they know better.

 

[Paul 666]

You said that twice you said that twice

I still own my 911, the service experience at the dealer makes me shake my head at Tesla. I'm sure Tesla will get better again some day but if they were this bad years ago I wouldn't have one! Tesla does things differently but that's currently a disadvantage, competence needs to come before anything else.

I'm surprised more people are spreadinf fear on Taycan charging, people tried that back when I bought my Tesla but I never expected it from Tesla owners. CCS is already growing faster than supercharging ever did, thanks to dieselgate, and I wasn't worried back then when supercharging was only operational in a few cities. We're so spoiled now we've forgotten where we were when our cars were new I guess.

oops!

 

[brucet999]

So this is just US sales figures, but it looks like the eTron hype was short lived. Or maybe mighty Audi is having delivery problems! But after a nice first full month selling 856 cars in May, they have been steadily dwindling, ~100 less cars per month per month (yes I meant that - think about it), and September sold only 434. Makes me wonder where the support level is for this overweight beast that looks nice but has short range and detuned so it doesn't embarrass their SQ5 or Q8.

So where are the news flashes? Where are the Seeking Alpha bloggers claiming they don't know how to build cars? Where is Chanos?

On a similar note, the iPace seems to have settled just under 200 cars/month in the US. Any guesses where Taycan will settle down to? My guess is <100/month after the initial rush, and maybe 150/month when the base and 4S models become available. I kind of assume similar numbers for the MB EV. So all told, all of these lux EV's combined might equal Model S sales in the US. Oh wait, half are SUVs - lump in the Model X? They will need way more lux EV's to come to market to challenge Tesla then.

US Vehicle Sales Figures By Model | GCBC

I think that you are looking in the wrong place for the success of eTron. I recently saw a PBS documentary on China, focused especially on its carbon reduction programs. Included was a report on the subsidized electric car market there, during which they discussed Audi's eTron, which is apparently selling well. The piece pointed out that China is actually Audi's largest market, and to meet Chinese regulations, the company had to have a viable electric model for that market.

Now I understand why Audi has moved faster than any other legacy auto maker to deliver a mass-produced BEV. It didn't have to be better performing than Tesla, it just had to be up to Audi fit and finish standards and readied for market quickly. Most of the ones shown appeared to be taxis, where short range would not be a problem.

 

[mswlogo]

Small correction, the Volt died because the platform it was/is built on is being eliminated

Because they didn't know how to sell that platform.

 

[brucet999]

Because they didn't know how to sell that platform.

Sedan demand in the US has been declining for years. Ford and GM have both dropped sedans in order to concentrate on highly profitable SUVs and pickups.