Another tragic fatality with a semi in Florida. This time a Model 3

[banned-66611]

If it is not intended to be used on this road, Tesla should lock out AP.

That is in fact what both Cadillac and the new Nissan hands-free ProPilot do. Very sensible.

 

[banned-66611]

Should they also lock out putting the car in drive if your seatbelt isn't on?

How about locking out driving any speed above the speed limit?

In the EU the warning beeps if you don't have your seatbelt on are mandatory and cannot be turned off.

Autopilot does in fact limit the speed you can set, I think it's the speed limit +10% or something.

 

[qdeathstar]

It's totally relevant.

Requiring seat belts would save massively more lives than your idea. Yet you seem to not be in favor of it...for...some...reason....

you are missing the point. I’m not the one saying people who drive without their seatbelts deserves to die. Which is the AP equivalent to what you are saying. You are complaining about speeders but you don’t want speed tables installed. You exclaim, rather proudly, that it ain’t Tesla’s problem cause it’s not supposed to be used on that road, but don’t want your access to it to be limited to roads it’s approved for. Pathetic.

If you can't understand 2 or 3 sentences in the manual you probably

should listen to Tesla’s marketing wank... Cigarette companies can’t be held responsible for your cancer, after all.

Actually, an even greater one- the car ALWAYS knows if your seatbelt is on. It can't be SURE if you're on an AP appropriate road or not because sometimes the maps are wrong.

Which would be a mere inconvenience...

 

[lolder]

FSD by definition cannot have these limitations. FSD will use much more AI video to eliminate these problems.

 

[Knightshade]

In the EU the warning beeps if you don't have your seatbelt on are mandatory and cannot be turned off.

...and?

I'm not aware of a way to turn those beeps off in the US either BTW (on a tesla at least)... but in both cases you can still drive the car with the beeps.

If we're gonna nanny-fie the car to stop you from doing anything unsafe we should disable driving with the belt off after all, not just beep at you.

Autopilot does in fact limit the speed you can set, I think it's the speed limit +10% or something.

Not quite, no.

On roads it's actually intended for use on you can set any speed you want up to 90, even if it's in a 55 zone or something.

It maxes at 90 because the system can't operate safely at higher speeds given the limitations of the sensors and decision-making abilities of the system.... (and it used to be 80 a couple years ago, they raised it)

Either way- it's above the speed limit anywhere in the US (and above by quite a bit nearly everywhere in the US)

 

[Knightshade]

you are missing the point. I’m not the one saying people who drive without their seatbelts deserves to die.

Why not?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

should listen to Tesla’s marketing wank...

Dude... YOU are the one who claimed it wasn't "clear" when AP was intended to be used.

I had to, once again, correct your factually wrong claim by citing documented proof.


That's not "marketing" that's "the intended operating domain of the system"

Cigarette companies can’t be held responsible for your cancer, after all.

Sure they can. Because you're using the product as intended and it's causing you harm.


They can not be held responsible if you burn your home down with one because you dropped it though.

Which would be a mere inconvenience...

I like how you glossed over getting caught saying the reason they don't lock out driving without wearing a belt or when speeding is it'd require adding costly hardware....neither of which is at all true.

 

[qdeathstar]

Dude... YOU are the one who claimed it wasn't "clear" when AP was intended to be used.

I had to, once again, correct your factually wrong claim by citing documented proof.

it is not clear because of Tesla’s marketing wank.

I like how you glossed over getting caught saying the reason they don't lock out driving without wearing a belt or when speeding is it'd require adding costly hardware....neither of which is at all true.

because your statement was addressing what I was saying at all. You asked why they don’t put speed limiters and interlocks in cars. The cost of adding interlocks to every car that has a seatbelt is high.

 

[Knightshade]

it is not clear because of Tesla’s marketing wank.

Given Tesla spend $0.00 on marketing you again appear to be just saying random nonsense words with no bearing on the topic.

The operators manual for the car is crystal clear on this

If you still have trouble understanding it, that's really on you.

because your statement was addressing what I was saying at all.

It was literally quoting what you were saying, and pointing out it is, grossly, factually untrue.

You claimed that having lockouts for those things would require adding expensive HW.

That's flatly wrong. All needed HW is already in the car. It'd require adding about 5 lines of code to the software. That's it.

In fact it's be much easier to add THOSE lockouts and have them work correctly than the AP one you're asking for (since that one would have to be based on maps known to be less than perfect)

You asked why they don’t put speed limiters and interlocks in cars. The cost of adding interlocks to every car that has a seatbelt is high.

The cost of adding them in a Tesla is zero dollars

The hardware is already there


Or are you so desperate to avoid being wrong at every turn you're now moving the goalposts to be "safety in 30 year old cars that don't ALREADY know if your seat belt is on or not" instead of in a Tesla?

 

[qdeathstar]

Given Tesla spend $0.00 on marketing you again appear to be just saying random nonsense words with no bearing on the topic.

lol... naive. You don’t have to spend money on marketing to market your *sugar*, bro..

All needed HW is already in the car. It'd require adding about 5 lines of code to the software. That's it.

Citation needed. You actually only need one line of code. Putting code on lines makes it easier for the coder to read what he has written, the compiler doesn’t care.

Or are you so desperate to avoid being wrong at every turn you're now moving the goalposts to be "safety in 30 year old cars that don't ALREADY know if your seat belt is on or not" instead of in a Tesla?

No, just all new cars. Unless you have a good reason to exclude... Kia’s from the seatbelt lockout and autopilot lockout requirements? If we are going to require all new cars that have seatbelts to have interlocks, that will be expensive. If we require all new cars that will have self driving features to lockout areas where they aren’t allowed, the cost is low (Tesla actually does this already l)

But again you are missing the point. You are the person complaining about speeders and not wanting speed tables. That’s my point. Your wagging your finger but willing to do the same thing your wagging the finger about. Pathetic.

 

[Knightshade]

lol... naive. You don’t have to spend money on marketing to market your *sugar*, bro..

Please- by all means, quote some of this "marketing" from Tesla that contradicts the owners manual you apparently can't figure out how to read.

Because so far it sounds again like you're rambling on with utter nonsense unconnected to reality.

Citation needed. You actually only need one line of code. Putting code on lines makes it easier for the coder to read what he has written, the compiler doesn’t care.

So programming would be yet another thing you don't know anything about

No, just all new cars.

Including every Tesla ever made.

(we're on a tesla forum.... did you not realize that- are you lost?)

So again this lockout would cost zero dollars to add to the same cars you want AP lockouts on.

If we are going to require all new cars that have seatbelts to have interlocks, that will be expensive

No, it won't.

Because you just told us all new cars already detect this



Man- even you don't agree with you!

 

[Knightshade]

Or to sum up...

Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully
attentive driver on freeways and highways
where access is limited by entry and exit ramps.

WHY IS TESLA SO UNCLEAR AND CONFUSING ON WHERE I AM SUPPOSED TO USE IT

 

[qdeathstar]

Please- by all means, quote some of this "marketing" from Tesla that contradicts the owners manual you apparently can't figure out how to read.

Because so far it sounds again like you're rambling on with utter nonsense unconnected to reality.

the webpage the car is sold at listed fsd on city streets by the end of last year, and Elon said we would be able to drive coast to coast with no intervention.

still waiting for those ones... that is over marketing AP, in my opinion.

So programming would be yet another thing you don't know anything about

Get you some facts... compiler doesn’t care about lines. Only syntax.

So again this lockout would cost zero dollars to add to the same cars you want AP lockouts on.

You logic was that requiring a lockout on AP was the same as requiring a lockout in seatbelts. If that is true, if I want cars that have AP to have lockouts, I should also want all cars that have seatbelts to have lockouts as well.

that was your logic. Now for some reason you want to change it to Tesla’s only.

Because you just told us all new cars already detect this

detecting is different than locking out ignition systems.

 

[qdeathstar]

Or to sum up...

Again, missing the point. If the point is to be clear about where you should use AP, they could be even clearer by disabling it. Right?

 

[Fernand]

Hey, what we need here is some deeper rectal probing, rather than merely skating the socratic surface.
So, Gentlemen, who's in favor of legislating greater citizen safety, beginning with some solid gun and knife controls? And smart Tylenol dispensers, to limit daily intake to 4 grams or less?

Oh, yes, I forgot:
.

 

[qdeathstar]

Hey, what we need here is some deeper rectal probing, rather than merely skating the socratic surface.
So, Gentlemen, who's in favor of legislating greater citizen safety, beginning with some solid gun and knife controls? And smart Tylenol dispensers, to limit daily intake to 4 grams or less?

Oh, yes, I forgot:
.

sounds good to me...

 

[Knightshade]

the webpage the car is sold at listed fsd on city streets by the end of last year, and Elon said we would be able to drive coast to coast with no intervention.

still waiting for those ones... that is over marketing AP, in my opinion.

Then your opinion doesn't even understand the difference between AP and FSD (among the many other things it has made clear it doesn't understand)

Get you some facts... compiler doesn’t care about lines. Only syntax.

It does when you're adding instructions to different areas of code that control entirely different things


The check for "is seatbelt on before allowing shift from park" would never go on the same line of code as "lock out speed while in drive above current speed limit"

(not only that- speed control would exist in several different places in the code- so you'd need that check for manual driving as well as in the TACC/AP/NoA code sections- some of which have DIFFERENT speed caps currently)


So, once again, you get your basic facts fundamentally wrong.

You logic was that requiring a lockout on AP was the same as requiring a lockout in seatbelts. If that is true, if I want cars that have AP to have lockouts, I should also want all cars that have seatbelts to have lockouts as well.

that was your logic. Now for some reason you want to change it to Tesla’s only.

Since only Teslas have AP that holds up perfectly well.


You're the one desperate to move goalposts anywhere you might sound less clueless and drag in decades old cars of other brands that don't already have "is your seatbelt on" detection built into em.

detecting is different than locking out ignition systems.

Yes... that difference is where it's only 1 line of code (arguably just making an existing one longer- since we're not discussing ignition at all (you moving goalposts AGAIN?) but putting the car in gear... the car ALREADY checks for foot-on-brake before allowing shifting into gear so just require that AND seatbelt on in the same check- either isn't true- no gear for you)



$0.00 in hardware costs though- contrary to your previous nonsense claims.

 

[whatthe2]

Again, missing the point. If the point is to be clear about where you should use AP, they could be even clearer by disabling it. Right?

Sure they could, but Why would they? People should be smart enough to realize when and when not to use it outside of Tesla’s recommended areas. I have no problems in using it on roads where Tesla doesn’t recommend it.

Are you next going to suggest that we build walls along every street so that people are forced to cross at a crosswalk and not jaywalk?

 

[qdeathstar]

Are you next going to suggest that we build walls along every street so that people are forced to cross at a crosswalk and not jaywalk?

why would I?

 

[camalaio]

I think the funniest thing in the last couple pages is neither side of this pointless argument has realized that a Model 3 actually does not let you drive if you don't have a seatbelt on (it will throw itself in park at low speeds or if you are stopped for a bit, and tell you to put your belt on).

Which funnily enough, it also mentions in the manual...

 

[qdeathstar]

Then your opinion doesn't even understand the difference between AP and FSD (among the many other things it has made clear it doesn't understand)

Tesla has a duty to inform its customers about the risks of using AP. Having ignorant posts on a fan site shout “read the manual” every time autopilot operates in a way the end user isn’t expecting isn’t working.






It does when you're adding instructions to different areas of code that control entirely different things

if(x == 1){
  for(int z = 0, z < 5, z++)
      {
      y[z] = z;
      }
  }

is functionally the same as

if(x == 1){for(int z = 0, z < 5, z++) { y[z] = z;}}

you are talking about style, how easy it is to read, convention. The compiler doesn’t care how you write it, as long as the syntax is right.

The check for "is seatbelt on before allowing shift from park" would never go on the same line of code as "lock out speed while in drive above current speed limit"

You don’t seem to understand how compilers work, so I’m not going to waste my time. Suffice it to say, you are wrong. There is zero debate. Quote this part if you wish, but you are wrong as red as a stop sign is.

Since only Teslas have AP that holds up perfectly well.

uh, no, there are many car manufacturers who offer capabilities similar to what Tesla offers. Tomato tomato.

You're the one desperate to move goalposts anywhere you might sound less clueless and drag in decades old cars of other brands that don't already have "is your seatbelt on" detection built into em.

Never mentioned old cars.