AP in 8.0

[ShotgunF15E]

I probably don't appreciate the nuances of all the technical changes 8.0 but after driving with it, I'm under impressed. It works...but so did 7.1

I still noticed several of the same issues/concerns I had with the limitations of the current hardware and software under 8.0 that I had under 7.1. You still have to closely monitor the system and be ready to take over at any moment. Period. End of discussion. Everything else really isn't writing home about. Drive your car, be responsible, and don't expect it to handle every situation possible.

Enjoy 8.0...and in other news....the sky is blue...

 

[rog]

These look familiar, but I can't find where you're getting these?

This post with release notes does not list either one: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/goto/post?id=1750675#post-1750675

The "radar" blog post (list is at the end): Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar

 

[Apricot]

The "radar" blog post (list is at the end): Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar

Ah, thanks.

• Improved cut-in detection using blinker on vehicle ahead

I'm not sure how improved it is, but I generally found it does a good job.

• Car offsets in lane when overtaking a slower vehicle driving close to its lane edge

This one I haven't seen working at all, and it's something I hope they will keep working on.

 

[Neuromancer]

I posted the following in the sticky 8.0 thread, but thought it belonged here too.

So I've driven about three hours with the new 8.0 AP and here are my observations:

- As many have noted, stop and go is buttery smooth. I drive a lot of bumper to bumper freeway time and this car is now PERFECT at taking the stress out of my commute
- Also noted ubiquitously, the lane change is vastly improved. Decisive and confident
- Radar does see a car, sometimes two, ahead... but only if the car ahead is moving. It seems a bit inconsistent, but better than nothing
- The "is this thing going to stop or do I need to intervene" moments seem to have diminished or disappeared. On 7.1 I had several nervous stops when coming up on a stopped vehicle. 8.0 is handling this perfectly
- Lane tracking seems mildly improved. I still see some hunting and swaying on certain turn or lane variations... However, I noted the car successfully negotiated a part of my commute where a lane moves at 45 degree angle after an intersection. It has never done this before. Impressive
- The new white flashing border nag is helpful. On 7.1 I would sometimes miss the visual cue and get the first beep. I have not reached a single beep warning on 8.0 because the white border catches my peripheral vision when my eyes are on the road

AP NAG Section:

I tested hands free driving for this morning's commute. Hands free means my hands are resting on my knees a couple of inches to either side of the wheel and my eyes are on the road. My mother, or a simile of her, is not required for response to this thread.

During all times, I tried to offer no user input (lane changes, etc...)

- General assessment is that 8.0 DOES nag more frequently than 7.1, but not egregiously so
- Stop and Go: I have driven segments of stop and go for 12, 13, and 13 minutes before getting a nag. This was during speeds of less than 15MPH
- Slow and Go: For speeds ranging from 20-50 MPH, 6 minutes was the longest I went without a nag. 3-5 minutes seemed more common, but this is clearly impacted by driving environment, so I was unable to ascertain any sense of an actual 'timer'
- Cruising: I don't get to do much of this on my commute, which is why I love AP so much. This morning, AP running at 78MPH gave me:
- My first nag at almost exactly 2 minutes.
- The next nag came exactly two minutes later and my heart sank as I began envisioning a draconic timer.
-However, the next nag didn't hit until the 3 minute mark, and this unfortunately coincided with TACC slowing to 76 as I got close to the vehicle in front of me. This may have triggered the nag.
- The final nag came after 3:20, again coinciding with a slow down.

In summary, I find AP to be much better, but with slightly more nagging than I saw in 7.1. I never had a chance to keep in cruising on the open road to see if I could go much beyond three minutes. If anyone else can comment on this I'd love to hear your experience.

 

[calisnow]

AP 8.0 is much improved functionally but the nags have become intrusive, too frequent and detract from the driving experience. They seem about double in frequency at freeway cruising speeds.

I hope as Tesla gathers data and builds confidence in 8.0 the nah frequency will decrease.

 

[ArtInCT]

In my limited use of 8.0 Autopilot, here are my observations....

If there is a car in front of you in your lane and the roadway reaches the top of a hill or elevation, all is well, it appears that the S locks onto the car ahead.

If there is no car in front of you in your lane or in the lanes next to you, and the roadway reaches the top of a hill or elevation (so that it is looking out into air) then for a brief period of time, AP exhibits a bit of indecisiveness until it seen the roadway lines ahead again.

 

[calisnow]

If there is no car in front of you in your lane or in the lanes next to you, and the roadway reaches the top of a hill or elevation (so that it is looking out into air) then for a brief period of time, AP exhibits a bit of indecisiveness until it seen the roadway lines ahead again.

If so, that is a HUGE improvement over 7.0 - in which the Tesla would actually dive into oncoming traffic after creating a hill.

 

[Neuromancer]

Some additional thoughts on 8.0 and AP.

There has been much criticism here on TMC of some elements of this update. Particularly the media player for those that use USB, and the nav system. A list of other small issues persist as well... the things that users here have been asking to have changed or fixed for a long time. There has been enough of this for some to suggest that this is an underwhelming update, and should not have been called out by Elon as being a major advancement.

I think this is missing the point. While there have been several UI upgrades, and some minor feature adds (Dog Mode), this update was all about AutoPilot. I suspect (strongly) 8.1 will be the more 'wow' update for those dissatisfied with this one.

We must keep in mind that decoupling the radar from the camera and prioritizing it in the AP process is a massive change with long ranging (no pun intended) implications. That Tesla is doing what many thought could only be done with LIDAR (which has its own well noted limitations) is a huge step forward in autonomy. That this system may have prevented the death of Joshua Brown meant that Tesla HAD to get it in the hands of users as soon as was responsibly possible to prevent the next such situation. Even if it meant certain other features (ahem, USB Music UI) were not fully baked. This is not just true for the obvious ethical reasons, but also because every fatality with AP is a major blow to the advancement of the technology. It clouds the judgement of the public no matter how many millions of miles have been driven comparatively; which in turn can influence regulators and politicians.

It would have been utterly irresponsible to say "Hold the update for a couple more weeks while we tweak XYZ and add functions to ABC", under even the remote possibility someone may have preventably died during such a delay.

A.P. had to be THE priority for 8.0 (specifically, major accident avoidance/reduction). Now we'll see the rest of the goodies, including more advanced AP and usable USB support in updates coming very soon.

Elon made the right call... again. Keep the faith, more goodies coming soon.

 

[MP3Mike]

If so, that is a HUGE improvement over 7.0 - in which the Tesla would actually dive into oncoming traffic after creating a hill.

I haven't seen any reports of a Tesla creating hills to crest before. That is quite a feat to be done through a software update. But I guess it could make the drive more interesting.

 

[RichardL]

While I agree that a significant improvement in AP functionality should not have been held back - it seems to me that the changes in the Media Player are hardly last minute - the functional issue have been known for years, and why take away functionality like the selection by alphabetic index, which was there and working? This stuff is what is so annoying, actually degrading function for no good reason

I am still in shock at my new Model X reloading the entire USB every time I start up - my S never needed to do that even 3 years ago - another example of an inexplicable degredation in functionality

 

[Neuromancer]

While I agree that a significant improvement in AP functionality should not have been held back - it seems to me that the changes in the Media Player are hardly last minute - the functional issue have been known for years, and why take away functionality like the selection by alphabetic index, which was there and working? This stuff is what is so annoying, actually degrading function for no good reason

I am still in shock at my new Model X reloading the entire USB every time I start up - my S never needed to do that even 3 years ago - another example of an inexplicable degredation in functionality

Fair, but I think as many have noted the USB implementation feels 'half baked". I confess to being a glass half full type of guy, but that sounds suspiciously to me like the are in the middle of an overhaul and released what essentially and alpha version in order to not hold up AP. I think the removal of previous functionality (alphabetical index selection) is the strongest influence of my perspective. Refinements and functionality should be the domain of 8.1...

 

[SCDrJ]

My commute with 8.0 AP for me felt more "stable", the car seems a bit more "planted" in its lane. Less diving for exit ramps in my experience. I was letting it nag me a bit more than I normally would just to see what it would do. I got visual warnings multiple times which as others have said did not disable AP, so it seems that's just the audible ones. When driving in my typical fashion the nags seemed similarly timed and in similar spots (turns).

 

[BLKTSLA]

Just consolidating all of my vids in the appropriate threads in this regard AP in 8.0:

 

[mspohr]

I received 8.0 (.108) last night and had an opportunity to try it out today.
I used AP for most of my 100 mile drive which is about half 2 lane road and half freeway.
The first unpleasant surprise was when I was locked out of AP about 10 miles into the drive. I usually hold the steering wheel lightly by wrapping my hand around it. I was driving along and the first thing I noticed was the red flashing screen and AP lockout. I did not notice any earlier warnings. I tend to watch the road, not the display. The AP used to mute the radio when it gave a warning... no longer. It just went straight to lock out. I assume there there were some warnings on the display but I did not see them since, as I said, I tend to watch the road. I really need the radio mute to tell me about the warnings... I don't know why that was removed.
The second part of my drive was along a difficult section of I-80 between Truckee and Reno. This is steep and winding and AP has never successfully navigated it without intervention. Well... 8.0 did no better and I think it was actually worse in some sections. There were a few times where it was uncomfortably close to a truck in the next lane. (This, in spite of the new feature which is supposed to move it away from something in the next lane... I never observed that to work.) It also made several lunges toward the center divider which is very close to the travel lane. I finally shut it off since I didn't trust it.
So, bottom line. No better than AP 7.1. In some ways worse. I hope they fix it.
Meanwhile, I guess I'll have to cultivate a twitch in my hands to keep the AP from cutting me off.

 

[calisnow]

The AP used to mute the radio when it gave a warning... no longer. I really need the radio mute to tell me about the warnings... I don't know why that was removed.

I believe it was removed on purpose and for the following reason - to "test" if you are paying attention and prevent "cheating" by folks reading a book who hear the chime then touch the wheel.

The idea must be that if you are looking forward you will see the bright white flashing ring before the tone.

I've missed it also while looking at the road.

 

[Todd Burch]

My thoughts on AP changes:

1. Lane changing is improved (doesn't overshoot as much, and it's a bit smoother). Detection of "changeable lanes" is only improved a little though. Still has trouble detecting short dashes (such as those you see at the start of an exit) as a changeable lane, so I end up having to take over there.

2. Braking is better, but still too aggressive. IMHO if it feels like you're close to the point where friction brakes are needed, it's too strong. It still feels like it's well into the friction brake range. I recognize that this has a lot to do with the car you're following and how hard they brake, but I think they can still do better here.

3. When following a car without any lane markings (as I occasionally do in my neighborhood just to test), the car does better at "tracing out" the lead car's path on the ground. In 7.1, it would trace somewhat, but there would be an aspect of "cutting the curves" a bit to where in 7.1 it was more likely to get close to the curb on a curve to the right. I mention this because similar logic is used when you enter an intersection following a car and the intersection has no lane markings. This might help keep the car "in the lane" a little better.

4. I like that lane markings are respected and used for guidance at even lower speeds now (<18 mph).

5. WRT autosteering in general, I don't notice a significant difference between 7.1 and 8.0.

6. Other cars are more smoothly animated on the IC, which is nice. Not perfect, but better. I'd still prefer that cars detected by the ultrasonics at the sides and corners of the car be shown on the IC. I think they should be able to figure out how to do that, but I'm not sure if it can be done with ultrasonics. (Technically they should be able to see 18 ft out from the car).

7. The UI changes for getting our attention (flashing border, more obvious steering icon, orange color and flashing when autosteer fails to engage, and improved TACC icon) are much better.

It seems a lot of the features mentioned in Elon's AP press conference (taking highway exits and interchanges, better turn signal detection, more speed adaptation in curves) were pushed back from the 8.0 release and will likely be in 8.1. My theory for this is that:
a) They'll need to do a release to enable the whitelisted emergency braking support discussed in the press conference.
b) There were a lot of changes in this release and the release notes were getting long. Might be better to put some of those safety-critical things in a separate release so that people can focus more on them when they come.

 

[mspohr]

I believe it was removed on purpose and for the following reason - to "test" if you are paying attention and prevent "cheating" by folks reading a book who hear the chime then touch the wheel.

The idea must be that if you are looking forward you will see the bright white flashing ring before the tone.

I've missed it also while looking at the road.

That's interesting logic but it really doesn't apply to me. I wasn't reading a book or texting or doing anything but watching the road ahead. I totally missed the display notifications until I was locked out of the AP.
I guess I'm going to have to learn to "fight" the steering wheel constantly to keep this from happening.

 

[Snerruc]

Has anyone found out if 8.0 sees cross traffic at a grade crossing better than 7.1 since the radar should see cross traffic?

 

[calisnow]

That's interesting logic but it really doesn't apply to me. I wasn't reading a book or texting or doing anything but watching the road ahead. I totally missed the display notifications until I was locked out of the AP.

I didn't say it applies to you I said I believe that is why Tesla set the system up this way.

 

[u00mem9]

The AP used to mute the radio when it gave a warning... no longer. It just went straight to lock out.

That is a confusing change...they want to provide a notice on the dash (where you really shouldn't be looking if you are paying attention to the road) and remove an audio indication? I suspect that is just a mistake like all the broken USB stuff. Much of this was probably in test and debug, when Elon decided to tweet a release date and suddenly it's going out, ready or otherwise.