Audi Q6 e-tron EV

[Johan]

Rumors say three versions: 95kWh, 95kWh S (sport), and 70kWh.

Video says charging at up to 150 kW with the Frankenplug (CCS combo plug) - this is good (Tesla Superchargers max out at 120 kW)

Overall the car looks interesting. I know that more than 4000 people in Norway have reserved a spot in line (the deposit is about €2000, fully refundable).

 

[tescroft]

400 charging points by 2020. What a joke.

 

[Kbra]

400 charging points by 2020. What a joke.

But they don't necessarily need their own. There are other DC quick chargers out there with the same plug. Speeds may vary.

 

[techmaven]

Rumors say three versions: 95kWh, 95kWh S (sport), and 70kWh.

Video says charging at up to 150 kW with the Frankenplug (CCS combo plug) - this is good (Tesla Superchargers max out at 120 kW)

Overall the car looks interesting. I know that more than 4000 people in Norway have reserved a spot in line (the deposit is about €2000, fully refundable).

The video says a full charge in under 30 minutes. Not sure how that is possible with a 150 kW EVSE and even a small taper and charging losses. It will be interesting to see the charge curve.

 

[Johan]

The video says a full charge in under 30 minutes. Not sure how that is possible with a 150 kW EVSE and even a small taper and charging losses. It will be interesting to see the charge curve.

Yeah, I don't get that either. If you somehow magically could sustain 150kW almost to the end of the charge (which we all know is impossible due to the laws of physics) 1/2 hour of 150kW would still only give you 75 kWh (without any losses). And the smaller 70 kWh battery wouldn't be able to take as much juice as the larger battery. I guess it's marketing and what they're really saying is something like you can charge from 0-80% in 29 minutes (which would still be impressive).

 

[Valore]

Yeah, I don't get that either. If you somehow magically could sustain 150kW almost to the end of the charge (which we all know is impossible due to the laws of physics) 1/2 hour of 150kW would still only give you 75 kWh (without any losses). And the smaller 70 kWh battery wouldn't be able to take as much juice as the larger battery. I guess it's marketing and what they're really saying is something like you can charge from 0-80% in 29 minutes (which would still be impressive).

Fastned, a dutch charging provider says the following:

The charge speed is up to 150 kW at our 175 kW fast chargers and up to 50 kW at our other chargers. The actual charge speed depends on the state of charge of the battery when plugging in. On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes. At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 80%. At a 50 kW charger this happens only at 98%.
Charging with an Audi e-tron Quattro

For the Hyunidai Ioniq Fastned states the following:
On average the Ioniq charges 100 km in 15 - 25 minutes. Above 75% the charge speed requested by the car will drop, and above 85% the charge speed is reduced to 22 kW.
Charging with Hyundai Ioniq


If the Audi really does 50kW charge until 98% with 150kW until 80%, this is possible. As they provide concrete values for different cars, I guess the Audi charge rate comes from their observation and is real.

 

[techmaven]

Fastned, a dutch charging provider says the following:

The charge speed is up to 150 kW at our 175 kW fast chargers and up to 50 kW at our other chargers. The actual charge speed depends on the state of charge of the battery when plugging in. On average the e-tron charges 100 km in 10 - 30 minutes. At a 175 kW charger the charge speed will slowly drop as of 80%. At a 50 kW charger this happens only at 98%.
Charging with an Audi e-tron Quattro

For the Hyunidai Ioniq Fastned states the following:
On average the Ioniq charges 100 km in 15 - 25 minutes. Above 75% the charge speed requested by the car will drop, and above 85% the charge speed is reduced to 22 kW.
Charging with Hyundai Ioniq


If the Audi really does 50kW charge until 98% with 150kW until 80%, this is possible. As they provide concrete values for different cars, I guess the Audi charge rate comes from their observation and is real.

It may be what I and others have speculated. The poor range of the Audi E-tron comes from a significantly limited pack with a large hold back buffer. With 95 kWh and only ~210 miles of EPA range, maybe they hold back 15-20 kWh instead of less than 5 kWh that is common with other BEVs. That way it can charge at ~1/2C all the way to 98%, since that's really 80%.

 

[bxr140]

The poor range of the Audi E-tron comes from a significantly limited pack with a large hold back buffer.

Thats not the worst solution. Many Tesla owners are 90% set-and-forget anyway, and as more and more people own EVs fewer are going to want to deal with the geeky aspect of picking a charge limit. We don’t do it for anything else with a battery...

 

[miimura]

It may be what I and others have speculated. The poor range of the Audi E-tron comes from a significantly limited pack with a large hold back buffer. With 95 kWh and only ~210 miles of EPA range, maybe they hold back 15-20 kWh instead of less than 5 kWh that is common with other BEVs. That way it can charge at ~1/2C all the way to 98%, since that's really 80%.

This solution also allows them to hide degradation from the customer. On the whole, I think it's a good idea, just at the expense of maximum range.

 

[Sunlight]

If the only disadvantages of BEVs are the weight and initial cost, both could be reduced by having a smaller battery (40-50Kwh?). Range may improve a little with newer technology but let's estimate 250kms. This is suitable for 90% of driving.

If battery and charging technology improves over the next 5-7 years so that fully charging takes, say, 5-7 mins, and there are chargers all over the place, then the smaller batteries would be of so little inconvenience (even on a long journey) that it may fade away as an issue.

Also the problem of how to charge if you live with no off-street parking at home would become irrelevant....

Of course by then there may be super lightweight cheap batteries so we can all have 1000kms range (that'll be the end of the ICE -age...)

 

[bugout]

Someone in marketing messed up. Every other mention of charging always said 80% in 30 minutes.

 

[techmaven]

This solution also allows them to hide degradation from the customer. On the whole, I think it's a good idea, just at the expense of maximum range.

Thats not the worst solution. Many Tesla owners are 90% set-and-forget anyway, and as more and more people own EVs fewer are going to want to deal with the geeky aspect of picking a charge limit. We don’t do it for anything else with a battery...

The problem obviously is that if the owner does need some extra range, it can't be utilized even on rare occasions. Mercedes did this initially with the B-class... few people realized it was a 36 kWh battery pack as Mercedes took it a step further and only advertised the usable capacity which was dramatically lower.

It is not clear at this juncture if range matters to people buying the I-Pace, E-tron, or the Taycan. It might be the right gamble that the buyers of these cars don't care about maximum range.

 

[bxr140]

The problem obviously is that if the owner does need some extra range, it can't be utilized even on rare occasions.

The solution to that, of course, is the global charging network buildout. At some point, probably not that that far in the future, even if the fast charge network doesn't quite reach to the four corners, 'I need just a few more miles' will be such a super corner case that will be easily served by the global slow charging network.

Certainly when faced with the marketing gold in "XX minutes to full charge", "super fast acceleration", and potentially even "no battery degradation", under-rating actual battery performance does seem like it can close the business case.

 

[Valore]

Looks like Audi is starting the E-Tron production today.

Audi starts e-tron quattro all-electric SUV production today

 

[ucla95]

Etron looking pretty compelling

 

[Lasairfion]

Looks like Audi is starting the E-Tron production today.

Good. It's about time we saw some new EV vehicles you can actually drive onto a street from other manufacturers. I don't see the issue with other brands of EV coming out. The more the merrier.

Tesla is here to drive change, not to replace everyone with a monopoly.

 

[tescroft]

This could indeed be a first competitor for Tesla, as it also brings some cool features like screen mirrors. Looking forward to that. This might increase pressure on Tesla to improve the X. The world needs more good EVs. The vehicle itself might be quite good. Though owners will suffer the horrible charging station situation all over the world, with very few fast chargers and lots of badly maintained charging stations with different types of proprietary payment methods. The Tesla Supercharger network is just awesome. For long distance travel, there is no alternate currently.

And then there is the drawback that it is an Audi or a VW actually. You newer know when they cheat you, and the dealers try to take you to the cleaners anyway.

 

[Snerruc]

Hmmm....virtual mirrors on screens. Tesla has been trying to get that approved in the US for years. Good luck with that.

 

[Spidy]

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Hmmm....virtual mirrors on screens. Tesla has been trying to get that approved in the US for years. Good luck with that.

FWIW, they are legal now in the EU.