Autopilot Asking for Input Every 11 Seconds

[PassingLane]

With so little to go on its difficult to respond in a meaningful way.
You say the interior camera is disabled and always has been, but the newer releases now use the camera instead of wheel input, so disabling the camera will increase the need for wheel input not decrease it.
Remember there is a great deal of pressure on Tesla to stop using wheel inputs as indications of driver attentiveness so this trend will continue.

I just checked, there’s no longer an option to do anything with the interior camera.

 

[PassingLane]

You need to apply slight left-turning or right-turning torque. Resting your hand on the bottom of the wheel isn't effective because the wheel doesn't sense centralized weight, it senses turning force i.e. torque.

Jiggling back and forth isn't necessary, just relatively constant torque in either direction.

If you don't like doing that constantly or fairly often, yes you can use the scroll wheel or half tap the stalk fairly often.

If you don't like doing any of that too often, then uncover the camera and it will greatly increase the time interval between steering wheel mags.

If you don't like any of the above, then I guess you'll need to stop using it or wait until Tesla makes it fully autonomous. But first try the steady torque method, most people get used to it as others have said.

Thanks. Will do.

 

[RTPEV]

What's wrong with having my hands in my lap?

I think you answered your question in your original post. It requires you to reach up and apply torque on the steering wheel periodically to show the car that you are paying attention. You stated that this was annoying, so I guess that's the problem.

 

[PassingLane]

I think you answered your question in your original post. It requires you to reach up and apply torque on the steering wheel periodically to show the car that you are paying attention. You stated that this was annoying, so I guess that's the problem.

True. I didn’t mean forever but 11 seconds seems too short. A minute or so seems more reasonable to me especially if the interior camera feels I’m paying attention.

 

[RTPEV]

Really? I've never done that. I've been wondering if the break pressure on the wheel was something that could vary from car to car. I saw a video of a guy with a yoke steering wheel in a Model S break out of Autosteer by pressing comfortably down with one finger. I doubt I could do that. When I break out of Autosteer intentionally, I tend to produce an immediate overcorrection because of the amount of pressure I have to apply.

Possible, but I think it's more based on the person. My wife recently got a Model Y, so now I have a huge sample size of TWO!

Here's the thing though. She had so much trouble using Autopilot at first. She would get a nag and then overcorrect and disengage AP. This went on for a couple of weeks and even with me coaching her she couldn't get it. I started to suspect that like you, maybe there was a difference between vehicles. But she finally let me drive "her" car, and I didn't have a problem with it at all. Finally, we took a road trip in it and she got a lot of practice on the highway and yes, now she gets it and no longer gets nagged.

I just think with some people it takes a bit more practice to get the touch right. I think in her case (and I suspect others) what happens is that they simply "hold" the wheel (and then you have those that squeeze it!), then get a nag and have a bit of a startle response that overcorrects and disengages. It really doesn't take much torque at all (just barely enough to feel the resistance), and there is nothing wrong with getting a nag every now and then and just gradually increasing torque until it clears (you don't have to clear it instantaneously). Using this approach it's pretty easy to find that sweet spot.

 

[RTPEV]

True. I didn’t mean forever but 11 seconds seems too short. A minute or so seems more reasonable to me especially if the interior camera feels I’m paying attention.

Well I mean a potentially dangerous event can crop up at almost any time, so you could make the argument that the proof that you are paying attention ought to be constant, and not every 30 or 11 or whatever seconds. Think of it as the system requiring you to be paying attention (and proving it) constantly, but it does let you have an occasional brief loss of attention.

 

[derotam]

Really? I've never done that. I've been wondering if the break pressure on the wheel was something that could vary from car to car. I saw a video of a guy with a yoke steering wheel in a Model S break out of Autosteer by pressing comfortably down with one finger. I doubt I could do that. When I break out of Autosteer intentionally, I tend to produce an immediate overcorrection because of the amount of pressure I have to apply.

So the physical break out torque required is not a static value, there is some kind of variance. I have had times where I had to but "a lot" of force in order to break out of AP, and I have had time where barely any force pushed me out unintentionally. I haven't been able to fine a correlation between knockout torque and turn radius. I also don't think there is a correlation between knockout torque and lateral g-force(knocking out of AP on a curve at different speeds).

It's not really a hard thing to test I don't think from a test planning standpoint...being able to use one section of road curved or straight and at different speeds over and over is just way too much in time/effort for this specific issue.

The other time/effort restrictive issue I have is related to a lane wobble in one specific spot on a curve that has happened I think since I ever got the car. On that one I wonder if there is a weird wobble in the curve itself that is being copied with the car, but I don't really believe the car would be that sensitive or it would cause more widespread lane keeping instability issues.

 

[PassingLane]

Well I mean a potentially dangerous event can crop up at almost any time, so you could make the argument that the proof that you are paying attention ought to be constant, and not every 30 or 11 or whatever seconds. Think of it as the system requiring you to be paying attention (and proving it) constantly, but it does let you have an occasional brief loss of attention.

I agree but having my hands on my lap doesn't mean I'm not paying attention.

 

[derotam]

I agree but having my hands on my lap doesn't mean I'm not paying attention.

You going to "die on that hill"?

IF Tesla shifted to a driver's eye's/head position ONLY position then I could see your argument, but it's not. Find a way to keep a hand on the wheel in some way to satisfy the torque requirement.

 

[RTPEV]

I agree but having my hands on my lap doesn't mean I'm not paying attention.

How is the car going to know that though?

 

[PassingLane]

How is the car going to know that though?

It wouldn't unless it can read my mind. Maybe I need that brain implant Musk is working on, Anyway, what I was complaining about was the 11 second nag, not the one that sometimes seems like they are a minute apart.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I've tried the one hand resting on the bottom of the steering wheel. Doesn't seem to help unless I consciously induce movement. I'll have to try this again and time the nags. I don't expect Tesla to change its behaviour but I bet in 30 years people will be sitting in a comfortable, couch-like environment nowhere near the manual control. They'll be like "You had to jiggle the wheel?" "How quaint". Lol

As others point out, bottom of steering wheel does not generally work well. This is because the force being applied from gravity becomes mostly or fully radiating outward from the center and not rotational.

What you want instead is to provide a rotational force. This generally happens when you have your hand at or close to the 3 and 9 o clock positions. In this way gravity helps your hand naturally apply a rotational torque that the wheel can detect.

A way to think of it is think of the wheel as a flathead screw. To screw/unscrew, you have to rotate your screwdriver. Putting your hand on the bottom instead is more like using your screwdriver to pry it down, which obviously does nothing to screw or unscrew it.

I now understand why some people have so much trouble even when they say they have their hand(s) on the wheel. I guess most people don't understand how the forces/sensing works.

 

[PassingLane]

As others point out, bottom of steering wheel does not generally work well. This is because the force being applied from gravity becomes mostly or fully radiating outward from the center and not rotational.

What you want instead is to provide a rotational force. This generally happens when you have your hand at or close to the 3 and 9 o clock positions. In this way gravity helps your hand naturally apply a rotational torque that the wheel can detect.

A way to think of it is think of the wheel as a flathead screw. To screw/unscrew, you have to rotate your screwdriver. Putting your hand on the bottom instead is more like using your screwdriver to pry it down, which obviously does nothing to screw or unscrew it.

I now understand why some people have so much trouble even when they say they have their hand(s) on the wheel. I guess most people don't understand how the forces/sensing works.

Makes perfect sense to me. Just wishing I didn't need hands on the wheel all the time.

 

[PassingLane]

You going to "die on that hill"?

IF Tesla shifted to a driver's eye's/head position ONLY position then I could see your argument, but it's not. Find a way to keep a hand on the wheel in some way to satisfy the torque requirement.

If you read my OP, it was the 11 seconds apart nags I was complaining about. I don't know why it's sometimes a minute apart and at other times, 11 seconds.

 

[Unclepaul]

When I do not want to pay constant attention to occasionally jiggling the yoke, I simply put one hand on a spoke and enjoy the ride.

Easy enouh system to figure out.

Certainly takes much of the effort, normally needed, on long highway trips.

 

[PassingLane]

When I do not want to pay constant attention to occasionally jiggling the yoke, I simply put one hand on a spoke and enjoy the ride.

Easy enouh system to figure out.

Certainly takes much of the effort, normally needed, on long highway trips.

Are you missing the word 'out'? If yes then it does for sure.

 

[EVNow]

Interior camera is disabled and always has been.

You have your answer.

 

[E90alex]

Makes perfect sense to me. Just wishing I didn't need hands on the wheel all the time.

Then you need to buy a Ford with Blue Cruise or GM with Super Cruise. Tesla does not offer any hands off system at all, not even FSD beta is hands off.

 

[PassingLane]

Then you need to buy a Ford with Blue Cruise or GM with Super Cruise. Tesla does not offer any hands off system at all, not even FSD beta is hands off.

Funny you should mention that. We're looking at a second EV and the Tesla deal with Ford is interesting for next year. Might look at the Mach E again.

 

[PassingLane]

You have your answer.

I elaborated further on that the option to disable the interior camera is no longer there. So, I don't think that's it unless I'm missing where that setting went to.