Autopilot Engaged and Override

[Az_Rael]

It's unlikely the OPs version is correct. Logs will tell. There have never been valid runaways except the Lexus that got the floor mat stuck in the pedal. ALL the rest are frauds or mental lapses. Pedal confusion is highest with new drivers and old drivers and is lowest for experienced middle age drivers. The Toyota settlement was a legal mistake on their part. The government investigation of unintended acceleration found no possible mechanism. Big Earl is correct.

Toyota eventually admitted that in addition to the floor mat issue, there was a "sticky pedal" issue. They got busted for withholding those facts from the NHTSA. Justice Department Announces Criminal Charge Against Toyota Motor Corporation and Deferred Prosecution Agreement with $1.2 Billion Financial Penalty

"TOYOTA was hiding from NHTSA a second cause of unintended acceleration in its vehicles: the sticky pedal. Sticky pedal, a phenomenon affecting pedals manufactured by a U.S. company (“A-Pedal Company”) and installed in many Toyota brand vehicles in North America as well as Europe, resulted from the use of a plastic material inside the pedals that could cause the accelerator pedal to become mechanically stuck in a partially depressed position. "

 

[Darscot]

No pictures or video of any kind, outlandish autopilot claims and the car is written off and the accident happened only yesterday. The tags used for the thread could not be more inflammatory and its a new users first post. You sure you don't hold a short position?

 

[shanif]

That does sounds bizarre, though I have experienced autopilot do some unexpected things. For example, if I have it engaged and set to 50 mph and I step on the brake to slow down a bit (to around 35) instead of disengaging autopilot, it starts speeding up again once I let go of the brake.

 

[jdcollins5]

Here we go again, “Unintended Acceleration”!!

It should not take Tesla long to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Vines]

If there is some truth to this story, I'd love to hear it. We all know Tesla software is not bug free.

 

[Vines]

So lets see some pictures of the car crashed as it stopped please.

 

[chronopc]

Toyota eventually admitted that in addition to the floor mat issue, there was a "sticky pedal" issue. They got busted for withholding those facts from the NHTSA. Justice Department Announces Criminal Charge Against Toyota Motor Corporation and Deferred Prosecution Agreement with $1.2 Billion Financial Penalty

"TOYOTA was hiding from NHTSA a second cause of unintended acceleration in its vehicles: the sticky pedal. Sticky pedal, a phenomenon affecting pedals manufactured by a U.S. company (“A-Pedal Company”) and installed in many Toyota brand vehicles in North America as well as Europe, resulted from the use of a plastic material inside the pedals that could cause the accelerator pedal to become mechanically stuck in a partially depressed position. "

Although there were hundreds of complaints, the NHTSA found no evidence of defects; and in every case, Toyota provided data it said showed no such evidence.

There's a large section talking about the results of the NHTSA's investigation and also one about driver error as the most likely cause.

Seems like the $1.2 billion settlement was to get out of wire fraud. On March 19, 2014 it was announced that Toyota and the U.S. Justice Department had reached an agreement whereby Toyota would pay a US$1.2 billion criminal penalty in exchange for deferred prosecution of wire fraud charges.

2009–11 Toyota vehicle recalls - Wikipedia

 

[chronopc]

A related question to this post is what have the results for the cases where the driver blame EAP for causing the accident? Has there been any case where the conclusion was EAP was reasonable?

 

[Az_Rael]

Seems like the $1.2 billion settlement was to get out of wire fraud. On March 19, 2014 it was announced that Toyota and the U.S. Justice Department had reached an agreement whereby Toyota would pay a US$1.2 billion criminal penalty in exchange for deferred prosecution of wire fraud charges

It was to get out of wire fraud charges like they jailed Al Capone for tax evasion.

"Also today, the Department of Justice announced a deferred prosecution agreement with TOYOTA (“the agreement”) under which the company admits that it misled U.S. consumers by concealing and making deceptive statements about two safety issues affecting its vehicles, each of which caused a type of unintended acceleration. The admissions are contained in a detailed statement of facts attached to the agreement. The agreement, which is subject to judicial review, requires TOYOTA to pay a $1.2 billion financial penalty – the largest penalty of its kind ever imposed on an automotive company, and imposes on TOYOTA an independent monitor to review and assess policies, practices and procedures relating to TOYOTA’s safety-related public statements and reporting obligations. TOYOTA agrees to pay the penalty under a Final Order of Forfeiture in a parallel civil action also filed today in the Southern District of New York.



The criminal charge is contained in an Information (“the information”) alleging one count of wire fraud. If TOYOTA abides by all of the terms of the agreement, the Government will defer prosecution on the information for three years and then seek to dismiss the charge."

 

[chronopc]

It was to get out of wire fraud charges like they jailed Al Capone for tax evasion.

"Also today, the Department of Justice announced a deferred prosecution agreement with TOYOTA (“the agreement”) under which the company admits that it misled U.S. consumers by concealing and making deceptive statements about two safety issues affecting its vehicles, each of which caused a type of unintended acceleration. The admissions are contained in a detailed statement of facts attached to the agreement. The agreement, which is subject to judicial review, requires TOYOTA to pay a $1.2 billion financial penalty – the largest penalty of its kind ever imposed on an automotive company, and imposes on TOYOTA an independent monitor to review and assess policies, practices and procedures relating to TOYOTA’s safety-related public statements and reporting obligations. TOYOTA agrees to pay the penalty under a Final Order of Forfeiture in a parallel civil action also filed today in the Southern District of New York.



The criminal charge is contained in an Information (“the information”) alleging one count of wire fraud. If TOYOTA abides by all of the terms of the agreement, the Government will defer prosecution on the information for three years and then seek to dismiss the charge."

I remember seeing so many news stories back then that turned out to be misleading. At the end of the day it didn't really damage the brand. Toyotas are still selling like hotcakes and the Prius is still doing really well.

 

[Az_Rael]

That does sounds bizarre, though I have experienced autopilot do some unexpected things. For example, if I have it engaged and set to 50 mph and I step on the brake to slow down a bit (to around 35) instead of disengaging autopilot, it starts speeding up again once I let go of the brake.

That is extremely bad. If you brake, TACC/AP should be off and stay off. I would make bug reports and note the times and dates and make an appointment with an SC. It might be a problem with a sensor on your brake pedal.

 

[Vines]

Before I take OP seriously I want to see the aftermath of the crash. Lets see these pics. Even better, post the dash cam footage.

 

[Az_Rael]

My theory for OPs crash: they said they were turning, so they could have accidentally hit the stalk to engage TACC if turning right. TACC accelerates, driver panics and has a pedal misapplication.

The airbags not deploying may be something to look into if the speed of the crash was high enough (they dont deploy always by design).

 

[chronopc]

Before I take OP seriously I want to see the aftermath of the crash. Lets see these pics. Even better, post the dash cam footage.

Unrelated accident, but it's all that I could find when I googled Model 3 crash through trees.

In this case the driver was a Tesla employee and he was drunk.

Tesla employee crashes Model 3 was arrested on DUI charge, police say

 

[Big Earl]

That does sounds bizarre, though I have experienced autopilot do some unexpected things. For example, if I have it engaged and set to 50 mph and I step on the brake to slow down a bit (to around 35) instead of disengaging autopilot, it starts speeding up again once I let go of the brake.

Please get this behavior on video.

 

[kavyboy]

That does sounds bizarre, though I have experienced autopilot do some unexpected things. For example, if I have it engaged and set to 50 mph and I step on the brake to slow down a bit (to around 35) instead of disengaging autopilot, it starts speeding up again once I let go of the brake.

The brakes disengage everything. The behavior you report is a defect, or things aren't happening the way you describe. I would love a video.

 

[lolder]

The Toyota sticky pedal can be stopped by braking.

 

[hamtonp]

My theory for OPs crash: they said they were turning, so they could have accidentally hit the stalk to engage TACC if turning right. TACC accelerates, driver panics and has a pedal misapplication.

The airbags not deploying may be something to look into if the speed of the crash was high enough (they dont deploy always by design).

This.
I've done it. I've also parked the car going slow speed when I was actually trying to activate the wipers.

 

[iaflyer]

I discovered just by chance that if you press the accelerator and brake at the same time, you get a message similar to "Both Pedals Pushed - Motor power cut off" or something like that. And the car has no power and slows down immediately. Once you take your feet off both pedals, it does whatever you want it to do (brake or accelerate) .

 

[chronopc]

I discovered just by chance that if you press the accelerator and brake at the same time, you get a message similar to "Both Pedals Pushed - Motor power cut off" or something like that. And the car has no power and slows down immediately. Once you take your feet off both pedals, it does whatever you want it to do (brake or accelerate) .

When I was first driving the Model 3 I did that quite a bit. I got used to having to do that in an ICE car to drive up hills. But with the hold feature I just need to accelerate.