Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[travwill]

Don't despair. It's thanks to all your valiant efforts that we will likely see Autopilot in September, October or certainly definitely most undoubtedly and assuredly by November at the latest! :tongue:

I'd like to think going forward they will promise what they plan to imminently release but they did announce the Ludicrous update and it seems that has yet to roll out...

Awesome! Glad to hear your thoughts - and if not then we'll surely see it in January or February, or say Q1 2016! ;-)

 

[MsElectric]

Right. This.

I mean, are there really a lot (or any?) people that are going to buy a BMW 7 series over the Model S because it has more advanced self-steering? Are people really like "well, these cars are basically equivalent in every other respect, but the BMW wins because it's more high tech?"

Conversely, are there BMW intenders out there who are otherwise sold on the Model S in every respect but are holding off because the BMW has air conditioned seats?

I mean, I doubt it. And I suppose if there are then the Tesla is a hell of a lot closer to mainstream acceptance than I think it is.

But if these things aren't Tesla's competitive differentiators (and they are so, so not), they should focus their time and money on the things that are--like the EV drivetrain, improving battery capacity, and building out the Supercharger network.

And in fairness to Tesla, maybe they are, which is why autopilot is still vapor ware at this point. But it would be nice if Tesla hadn't promised this feature without being able to deliver.

Don't be too quick to discount the interior luxury amenities for people who buy cars in this price segment. While we are all in awe and love of Tesla's EV drivetrain just realize that for many people who shop in this price segment, the drivetrain is irrelevant to them and they care a lot about the quality of the interior and luxury amnesties inside the car. I frequent the Mercedes S class forums and the Model S interior is the single one gripe they all talk about.

Since Tesla is intent on building the world's finest car, not just the world's finest EV, they need to do something special with the interior sooner or later but I agree with most of what you said otherwise in that they need to focus on some of the other core aspects of the car now given their limited resources. All I'm saying is just don't so readily discount the importance of the interior.

 

[TexasEV]

Right. This.

I mean, are there really a lot (or any?) people that are going to buy a BMW 7 series over the Model S because it has more advanced self-steering? Are people really like "well, these cars are basically equivalent in every other respect, but the BMW wins because it's more high tech?"

Conversely, are there BMW intenders out there who are otherwise sold on the Model S in every respect but are holding off because the BMW has air conditioned seats?

I mean, I doubt it. And I suppose if there are then the Tesla is a hell of a lot closer to mainstream acceptance than I think it is.

But if these things aren't Tesla's competitive differentiators (and they are so, so not), they should focus their time and money on the things that are--like the EV drivetrain, improving battery capacity, and building out the Supercharger network.

And in fairness to Tesla, maybe they are, which is why autopilot is still vapor ware at this point. But it would be nice if Tesla hadn't promised this feature without being able to deliver.

Exactly. Tesla should focus on its strengths rather than competing on its competitors turf.

 

[MsElectric]

Awesome! Glad to hear your thoughts - and if not then we'll surely see it in January or February, or say Q1 2016! ;-)

It'll come before you know it... :wink:

 

[dsm363]

I wonder how you make a statement like this with a straight face. Or have you forgotten that Tesla wouldn't exist if not for Mercedes? Mercedes made an investment at a critical time in Tesla that allowed them to stay in business until the US Government loan was available. Mercedes is selling a vehicle with a Tesla power train. They also have a high end internally developed electric vehicle with independent motors for each wheel. If Mercedes wants to delay EV development and adoption they sure aren't acting like it.

On the BMW front they've said that they expect most of their vehicles will be electric in the near future. They have the i3 right now and the i8 (which is really more of a hybrid). Your argument is a little more reasonable in this case but again I don't think that BMW is showing that they want to make an effort to delay EVs.

Now if you'd said Toyota, Hyundai, et al I'd agree. But you didn't and chose to pick on the two luxury brands that actually are working on EVs.

What full sized 200+ mile EV do either company have coming out in the next 5 years that they've announced?

 

[Soolim]

Exactly. Tesla should focus on its strengths rather than competing on its competitors turf.

That I absolutely agree. However, it should be something that would not look deficient when compared to a 50k car tech features (e.g. self parking, all around view, tire pressure reading, etc)

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What full sized 200+ mile EV do either company have coming out in the next 5 years that they've announced?

So far none. But that does not mean that no research and development behind the scene. To underestimate the opponent is a cardinal sin. ICE company don't need to do big announcement on BEV until they are close to ready, because they are in no immediate danger at this time. Premature announcement does them no good. On the other hand, Tesla needs to continue to keep the interest of NEW buyers, hence all this pre-mature announcement. Different business priorities between MB/BMW and Tesla.

 

[MsElectric]

What full sized 200+ mile EV do either company have coming out in the next 5 years that they've announced?

It's very disappointing how Mercedes is dragging their feet with EV offerings but unless I am mistaken, Audi is about to release an over 200 mile range EV.

 

[JST]

It's very disappointing how Mercedes is dragging their feet with EV offerings but unless I am mistaken, Audi is about to release an over 200 mile range EV.

Audi is not serious. None of the German companies are.

I've said it before (and I'm not the only one)--you will know another company is serious about EV deployment when they start building out a high speed charging network. A 200 mile EV is nice but is still a glorified city car without a charging network.

Tesla's particular genius move was realizing that you had to couple the two. Build the chicken and the egg at the same time. That solves the problem.

It amazes me that no one else has figured this out yet, especially those companies (like Ford) that claim to have a long-term vision for being "mobility" companies rather than car companies.

But until someone announces something like the Supercharger network, I guarantee you that they are not serious about selling electric cars.

 

[Sogorman]

So has anyone else noticed the three or four different release timelines/estimates/implications given over the last ~week?

First a tweet makes it sound like they're pretty much done. (Couple of weeks optimistically... Mid August?)
Shareholder letter says "later this year" and in the same letter something about Q3'15. (Late September?)
Shareholder conference call Elon says 15th for beta, release 1-2 months after. (Mid September to Mid October?)
The spam email Elon wants everyone to send out says "Coming in a few weeks." (End of August?)

So, as of now basically have timelines ranging from next week to the end of September.

Serious Tesla, some clarity would be great.

For what it's worth I just received a response from Tesla to my questions and concerns. It was more of a non response and really didn't answer any of my questions but I thought I would add this release date information to the growing list of conflicting information from Tesla, "Unfortunately, at this time we do not have a release date for future autopilot features"

 

[AC123]

I received the same response earlier. Looks like they have a templatized answer to this question.

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What full sized 200+ mile EV do either company have coming out in the next 5 years that they've announced?

Drivetrain is not as important to many though. Some people just want a nice car. Sure the other v8 ICE don't have instant torque, but they have so much else.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Amped, I think you put too little weight on the things for which any other luxury cars cannot compete. The instant torque, smooth drivetrain, full charge every morning, lack of oil changes, quiet ride, lack of shifting, increased storage space, low cost per mile, etc...I could go on.

In my mind, and in a lot of people's minds, a "plush" interior and gadgets don't even come close to making up for the fundamental flaws of an ICE drivetrain.

I'm not necessarily talking about plushness, I'm talking about all of the tech goodness in the car. I've already said that Tesla's drive train is superior and why I would never consider getting a BMW 7 Series, but that wasn't the purpose of my sharing that video. My purpose was to show that Tesla is not as technologically "bleeding edge" as some here would like to believe, at least in terms of non-drivetrain technology. Tesla has a lot of catching up to do just on the technology bits alone. There is nothing special about Autopilot anymore, except for Tesla's inability so far to deliver it.

 

[dsm363]

I received the same response earlier. Looks like they have a templatized answer to this question.

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Drivetrain is not as important to many though. Some people just want a nice car. Sure the other v8 ICE don't have instant torque, but they have so much else.

Who are "they"? The question was about an EV so by definition the drivetrain is important. Yes, the other automakers have more toys included in their cars at that price range but as you said they don't have the instant torque. I'm sure Tesla will slowly add those missing features over time. For people who just want a nice car and don't care at all that it's an EV then I'd argue against the Model S for them. Too much of a shift in having to plug the car in at night most likely.

At this time, no other automaker is publicly planning on making a serious Model S competitor in the next few years at least in substantial (10,000+ per year) numbers.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I don't doubt MB and BMW will make a EV for those customers who really want an EV, but it's not going to be competitive with Tesla. They have too much invested in ICE to make it too good such that mainstream luxury ICE buyers prefer it to their ICE lineup. I think preserving the predominance of ICE will be more important to them than making a great EV. Tesla gains by speeding the transition to EV. The legacy companies don't.

I don't agree with this. GM would sell you a car that runs on horse sh*t if it could.

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I bet in the winter it's not 90 miles...but regardless, IMHO a loaner vehicle from a dealer is not a solution. Well it is, but I don't think it's a very attractive one. So every time I want to drive 90+ miles I have to pay a dealer some nominal fee, coordinate with them to schedule a pickup, drive to the dealer (which in itself may not be conveniently located), leave my car there, and pay for gas on my trip? If they bring the car to you that would be only slightly better. No thanks. That sounds like a solution for a company that's not willing to go all in.

But anyway, I think this thread had something to do with autopilot and some horse that's been beaten to death.

Not to mention that driving an X5 is hardly a zero emission endeavor - and given the i3's unique design, it's probably fair to say that most people who bought into the i3 platform did so based on their environmental sensibilities (like Prius folks). Also, offering EV owners an ICE loaner when they need to drive more than 100 miles at a time is not a sustainable model.

 

[AC123]

Who are "they"? The question was about an EV so by definition the drivetrain is important. Yes, the other automakers have more toys included in their cars at that price range but as you said they don't have the instant torque. I'm sure Tesla will slowly add those missing features over time. For people who just want a nice car and don't care at all that it's an EV then I'd argue against the Model S for them. Too much of a shift in having to plug the car in at night most likely.

At this time, no other automaker is publicly planning on making a serious Model S competitor in the next few years at least in substantial (10,000+ per year) numbers.

They = tesla customer service. Atleast that's who I emailed.

And I think you are mistaking your preference of EV drivetrain as everyone's #1 requirement in a luxury car. The fact is, there are people who actually prefer the rumble of an engine.

Anyway in an attempt to keep the thread on topic, back to autopilot discussion.

 

[NigelM]

GM would sell you a car that runs on horse sh*t if it could.

I wish they would; I currently have to pay someone to truck it away every week.

 

[AC123]

NigelM but the horses have autopilot . Self driving horses FTW!

 

[AmpedRealtor]

We should probably change the Autopilot references in Elon's referral email template to better reflect reality. The earnings call made it clear that the feature is definitely not coming in a few weeks, unless we take words like "few" and "several" to mean 12.

 

[NigelM]

NigelM but the horses have autopilot . Self driving horses FTW!

Nah, they don't read the instructions:

(Sorry for the OT)

 

[stopcrazypp]

We should probably change the Autopilot references in Elon's referral email template to better reflect reality. The earnings call made it clear that the feature is definitely not coming in a few weeks, unless we take words like "few" and "several" to mean 12.

Or it may be talking about beta in terms of release (which is scheduled for 8/15). Elon said on conference call if that goes well, they will release initial functionality to the general public mid-September and full functionality 1-2 months after that. Unless the beta goes horribly wrong, unlike others here, I don't see much reason to doubt that (the release of initial functionality specifically).

 

[AC123]

I just wish the August 15 beta is an open opt in beta.