Autopilot Options

[JeffK]

Well in reality the "code" would be written for places the pilot can be driven, not where it can't. IE all roads tagged as interstate highways is a good place to start and expand from there.

But what about when there's construction? What it there's an accident to navigate through? What about a million other things I can't think of?

Why code it or keep an up to date map when you can simply have the driver use their own, probably more informed, discretion. You can't teach an artist how to paint a masterpiece, but you can certainly show him how to use a brush.

 

[KZKZ]

This is actually something that scares me with the preorders. I'm afraid we will get obsolete hardware that gets upgraded 6 months later.

I'd love if it came all the necessary hardware for full autonomy even if it's not enabled on day one. At minimum it'd be nice if there was an easy upgrade path should better sensors become available.

I'm in the same boat. I'm expecting the M3 will ship with the stereo cameras and the next generation Mobileye processors, but with Tesla it's always a gamble that they'll change things right after you place the final order and are locked in.

The problem with AP1.0 is there doesn't seem to be a robust upgrade path unless they add additional hardware, which I doubt.

I think we're more likely to see a downgrade for AP1.0 with a much more frequent nanny warning, which actually seems very appropriate given the limitations that we're learning about.

 

[SureValla]

But what about when there's construction? What it there's an accident to navigate through? What about a million other things I can't think of?

Why code it or keep an up to date map when you can simply have the driver use their own, probably more informed, discretion. You can't teach an artist how to paint a masterpiece, but you can certainly show him how to use a brush.

in the case of construction/accident I'm ok letting them turn it on or off on a highway and using discretion. I'm not ok with them being able to turn it on elsewhere.



"Alphabet's top exec in charge of the company's self-driving initiative seemed to back the view of the scientists in his recent testimony to Congress. "We saw in our own testing that the human drivers can’t always be trusted to dip in and out of the task of driving when the car is encouraging them to sit back and relax," he stated."
Scientific American: Deadly Tesla Crash Exposes Confusion over Automated Driving

 

[JeffK]

"Alphabet's top exec in charge of the company's self-driving initiative seemed to back the view of the scientists in his recent testimony to Congress. "We saw in our own testing that the human drivers can’t always be trusted to dip in and out of the task of driving when the car is encouraging them to sit back and relax," he stated."
Scientific American: Deadly Tesla Crash Exposes Confusion over Automated Driving

I worry in a decade or two we'll start hearing testimony on how human drivers can't be trusted to drive manually at all. If that happens we'll have to fight for our freedoms.

 

[SureValla]

I worry in a decade or two we'll start hearing testimony on how human drivers can't be trusted to drive manually at all. If that happens we'll have to fight for our freedoms.

I worry about that too actually

 

[diamond.g]

I'm in the same boat. I'm expecting the M3 will ship with the stereo cameras and the next generation Mobileye processors, but with Tesla it's always a gamble that they'll change things right after you place the final order and are locked in.

The problem with AP1.0 is there doesn't seem to be a robust upgrade path unless they add additional hardware, which I doubt.

I think we're more likely to see a downgrade for AP1.0 with a much more frequent nanny warning, which actually seems very appropriate given the limitations that we're learning about.

See this is the odd part to me. Did folks actually think AP was Level 4/5 autonomy? I only ever thought it was lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control. As far as I am aware the only thing it does that the others (BMW, Merc, Audi, etc) don't is signaled lane changes.

 

[JeffK]

See this is the odd part to me. Did folks actually think AP was Level 4/5 autonomy? I only ever thought it was lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control. As far as I am aware the only thing it does that the others (BMW, Merc, Audi, etc) don't is signaled lane changes.

The general public seems to think this. Owners for the most part don't think this but Youtube is full of videos showing people using it without hands doing stupid things.

 

[SureValla]

See this is the odd part to me. Did folks actually think AP was Level 4/5 autonomy? I only ever thought it was lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control. As far as I am aware the only thing it does that the others (BMW, Merc, Audi, etc) don't is signaled lane changes.

As a non-owner I was under the impression it would keep you in a lane and prevent you from hitting anything regardless of where it was coming from and what size it was (deer, swerving cars, road garbage, etc). I was under the impression you did not have to monitor the car to ensure your safety and you could therefore send a text, read a book, sightsee, but maybe not take a nap with only a casual glance here and there for safety. To me this is the definition of auto-pilot. I understood it couldn't drive you home if you were drunk b/c it was limited to highway driving only and eventually you'd need to do some surface streets to get home.

This is coming from someone who has been following tesla closely for the last few years and even owns stock so you can only imagine the public was probably even less informed than that.

Doing some research after this collision makes me realize its not that special as @diamond.g explains very well and has told me its not something worth spending my money on in my model 3. People text and drive enough as it is, having the Tesla system will only make it far far worse.

I looked up the definition of autopilot and it is: "A device that steers a ship, aircraft, or spacecraft in place of a person"

 

[JeffK]

has told me its not something worth spending my money on in my model 3

First the system never claimed to detect anything but vehicles...
That said they won't announce the autopilot features available on the Model 3 until late this year. It's going to be far more advanced. Don't make any rash decisions this early.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think the idea is to simply dissallow use of features in circumstances or environments where these features are known to fail or are limited to such an extent as to be unreliable.

I totally disagree. Features aren't failing. Humans are failing the features.

AP is a feature such as cruise control. You still have to be an ADULT when driving.

Features seem to be sifting out Adults from non-adults. A persons brain can receive an immense amount of input and react while sifting through immense amounts of data.
A brain can receive good data, legal data, illegal data, and all kinds of data and react according to self preservation. Do you know what kind of processing data that could possibly take over for a brain? It does not exist and won't exist.
Why do humans make the decisions they do? Its non programmable. Why do people believe that a robot will ever be able to replace one?

Adults please drive your cars...even with this feature turned on. Everyone else, please turn in your licenses.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I looked up the definition of autopilot and it is: "A device that steers a ship, aircraft, or spacecraft in place of a person"

I'm really not trying to argue. Really I'm not. So is that what you are going to go with?

1. Tesla had a design meeting.
2. They chose a name for this feature.... probably from a myriad of options.
3. They provided the name of the option to the public.
4. The public looks up the definition of an option according to a dead guy named websters
and because of all of this - decides that they can go to sleep in the back seat of their cars while their cars are going down the road with this new driver called AP.

The feature called AP works great, however in the hands of idiots can kill someone.


.

 

[Garlan Garner]

But what about when there's construction? What it there's an accident to navigate through? What about a million other things I can't think of?

.

I have a good idea.....TURN IT OFF AND DRIVE YOURSELF. For the sake of us all everyone. Be a responsible adult.

 

[JeffK]

 

[mhan00]

As a non-owner I was under the impression it would keep you in a lane and prevent you from hitting anything regardless of where it was coming from and what size it was (deer, swerving cars, road garbage, etc). I was under the impression you did not have to monitor the car to ensure your safety and you could therefore send a text, read a book, sightsee, but maybe not take a nap with only a casual glance here and there for safety. To me this is the definition of auto-pilot. I understood it couldn't drive you home if you were drunk b/c it was limited to highway driving only and eventually you'd need to do some surface streets to get home.

This is coming from someone who has been following tesla closely for the last few years and even owns stock so you can only imagine the public was probably even less informed than that.

Doing some research after this collision makes me realize its not that special as @diamond.g explains very well and has told me its not something worth spending my money on in my model 3. People text and drive enough as it is, having the Tesla system will only make it far far worse.

I looked up the definition of autopilot and it is: "A device that steers a ship, aircraft, or spacecraft in place of a person"

You thought a system that Tesla consistently said required the driver to stay alert and ready to take over at all times would allow you to text or read a book? Holy crap. What part of "stay alert at all times and ready to take over " even comes close to implying you could text or read a freaking book?

 

[Garlan Garner]

You thought a system that Tesla consistently said required the driver to stay alert and ready to take over at all times would allow you to text or read a book? Holy crap. What part of "stay alert at all times and ready to take over " even comes close to implying you could text or read a freaking book?

Exactly. What I'm also wondering is...Why would someone have to tell you to pay attention.

 

[M0DEL³]

I'm probably going to get smacked for saying this, but a per-mile tax would not necessarily be a bad thing. There does need to be some kind of tax to pay for road maintenance, and right now that's paid for by a gasoline tax. As the number of gas cars dwindle, the tax would dwindle as well.

As much as we all might prefer to "leave gas taxes behind", we all know that the road maintenance revenues must evolve as EV's become more ubiquitous. A Per-Mile tillage is a logical step in that direction, but personally I'd like to see tax structures that also factor in vehicle weight. A heavy truck will create hundreds of times the road wear than will a light car. I own a concrete truck that when loaded can weigh up to 68K lbs, and have observed light asphalt road-decks ooze out from beneath the wheels on hot days. And while I realize that Teslas tend to be heavier passenger vehicles, it's still the right thing to do if we are trying to have a system that best apportions cost to wear.

 

[M0DEL³]

Supposedly gas tax only accounts for a minority of funds toward road repair meaning whether you buy gas or not you're already paying for road work with general taxes.

In my state, state and reimbursed federal fuel (Gas & Diesel) taxes account for 82% of the overall state highway department budget. Most municipal/urban road-decks are built/maintained through mechanisms that usually include other revenue sources. Most rural (county) road maintenance is primarily funded via federal reimbursements, and in that arena, it's anybody's guess where said vapo-money is ultimately coming from: (Our grandchildren?, China?, The Fed?, ???)

 

[KZKZ]

See this is the odd part to me. Did folks actually think AP was Level 4/5 autonomy? I only ever thought it was lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control. As far as I am aware the only thing it does that the others (BMW, Merc, Audi, etc) don't is signaled lane changes.

I think most consumers think the AP is a Level 3 system, meaning it can drive itself 'hands free' for extended periods of time without driver intervention.

Tesla hasn't done much to limit that impression, despite the lawyerly warnings buried in the owners manual. Tesla sales reps certainly don't down play the system during test drives and they don't warn you it's only an assist system and your required to keep your hands on the wheel at all times.

Also, Tesla's nanny warning allows the car to be driven like a Level 3.

Does anyone really think AP is just a Level 2 system that requires the driver to always have hands on the wheel?

 

[Topher]

A heavy truck will create hundreds of times the road wear than will a light car.

...thousands of times...

Thank you kindly.

 

[zenmaster]

As much as we all might prefer to "leave gas taxes behind", we all know that the road maintenance revenues must evolve as EV's become more ubiquitous. A Per-Mile tillage is a logical step in that direction, but personally I'd like to see tax structures that also factor in vehicle weight. A heavy truck will create hundreds of times the road wear than will a light car. I own a concrete truck that when loaded can weigh up to 68K lbs, and have observed light asphalt road-decks ooze out from beneath the wheels on hot days. And while I realize that Teslas tend to be heavier passenger vehicles, it's still the right thing to do if we are trying to have a system that best apportions cost to wear.

I agree. Road damage is incurred with the proportion of vehicle weight raised to the fourth power. If you drove 16 Toyota Yaris or Mazda Miatas @ ~2300lbs, you'd cause less road damage than a single Model S @ ~4600lbs. There are several reasons to reduce weight besides making our roads last longer: increased range, better performance, less brake wear and pollutants, less tire wear and pollutants.