-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
In principle, this seems great. In reality, the design is simply insufficient to keep the battery anywhere near optimum temps. In colder climate, the range is reduced by 1/4 or 1/3 even above freezing conditions.
diamond.g
Active Member
Where do you think the energy to keep the battery warm comes from? Hint: it's the battery itself. That will eat the range.
But, we aren't discussing cold weather range here, are we? We are talking degradation... and managing battery temps to avoid capacity degradation (as well as to allow full range power output and regen ability) is what the thermal management system does.
You seem to be mixing premises.
Has nothing to do with battery of the week. It's talking about actually deployed systems which are considered state of the art. Tesla may very well follow BMW's lead and change to DX.
Yes it eats the range, and eats more range due to heat loss. It's all part of the design.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Let's remember Elon has mentioned several times he wants Tesla superchargers to go to 200kW in the near future.
Your post ignores important discussion context: namely the thermal management system reduces battery degradation and allows higher performance. This is the case even in cold weather.
You seem to cast this in the light of a negative for Tesla's system, yet there's no indication of how the DX system addresses warming the pack... or if they even do. Feel free to explain how their simpler, yet superior, system does this without also expending energy. Or if they opt to forego it, risking battery longevity.
JPWhite
Member
If they cheap out on thermal management, I and I believe many others will cancel their orders.
There is not a scenario I can foresee where Musk will make this blunder.
I hope that is the case. After watching the shareholder meeting, I didn't get the greatest feeling when it comes to what the Model 3 will get tech wise. I suspect I put way too much hope in what the Model 3 could be, as I only really had the Model S to compare it too. I feel that some items will be very similar to the Model S, such as the thermal management, drive units (in a smaller fashion), other drive components, etc., since the tech is already available and tested. However, I have this fear that the Model 3 will not nearly be as user interactive as the Model S, or at least not as many interactions, which is what I am very interested in as that is what I will see and use everyday. I also have a fear that the autopilot will not be the latest generation as hoped, but most likely what is currently available on the Model S, and possibly even limited in some way as to not truly compete with the S / X. This assumes the Model S will get an autopilot generation update before the Model 3 comes out, since Elon indicated the S / X would be the tech rich models, and I would be surprised if they gave the 3 the same autopilot as the S / X. I have no proof and knowledge that my fears are correct, I just am starting to lower my expectations, esp. after Elon’s comment about adding more/newer tech in later revisions of the model.
Obviously I had really hoped the Model 3 would basically be a Model S, with just less options / features but the same user interface / functionality.
But it was clearly stated that they will not withhold any tech "just because." Of course, companies can talk whatever they want but Elon's comment at least felt honest if nothing else so I'm inclined to believe him that they won't hold back technology just to protect something, cost of things will do it for them.
They're good at engineering. I'm sure that if they went without it, they would have solid reasoning and have been testing it in simulations for a while already. I'm not concerned. They have to pay the warranty costs if they're wrong, so their own financials are on the line along with reputation.
I'm curious to see what their HVAC solution will be for the car's cabin. They haven't provided any details on it.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
My take - Tesla wants to gather as much AP information as possible, so EVERY NEW car will be fitted with a full array of sensors. (buy in bulk, minimize mfg complexity). Activating the features is user choice ($). But the car will collect and report data.
Based on Elon's comments in today's Recode and the latest Tesla shareholders event I'd guess that they won't make any dramatic changes to the current system. The S and X are both the technological forerunners as well as test mules.
JPWhite
Member
@oudevolvo
I don't know the characteristics of the Tesla batteries but I do have a lot of data on charging the LEAF battery. Charging from 20% to 80% adds about 10 degrees fahrenheit. It doesn't matter if you charge quickly or slowly the temperature increase is similar.
Rapid charging itself is not an issue, but it does enable more driving and charging in a single day. So if you drive, charge, drive, charge the battery increases by 10 degrees F each charge and another 10 degrees as it discharges by driving.
The LEAF's passive cooling is only effective in reducing battery temperatures for the first 20 miles of driving after which the battery starts to warm up again.
Tesla's active thermal management protects against charging and driving induced overheating.
I don't know the characteristics of the Tesla batteries but I do have a lot of data on charging the LEAF battery. Charging from 20% to 80% adds about 10 degrees fahrenheit. It doesn't matter if you charge quickly or slowly the temperature increase is similar.
Rapid charging itself is not an issue, but it does enable more driving and charging in a single day. So if you drive, charge, drive, charge the battery increases by 10 degrees F each charge and another 10 degrees as it discharges by driving.
The LEAF's passive cooling is only effective in reducing battery temperatures for the first 20 miles of driving after which the battery starts to warm up again.
Tesla's active thermal management protects against charging and driving induced overheating.
Hold on. There is passive cooling in Leaf? What is it?
To the best of my knowledge there is zero cooling (or heating) ability for Leaf's battery
Similar threads
