Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

[Unobtanium]

One more ecosystem point Tesla wins again
With both of my Tesla purchases, we decided and secured a vehicle in two weeks
EVs must be able to be purchased, available
And another one, test drives, amazing
And another one
Teslas trade in experience is amazing
I did that twice too

How did that go? They gave me a $10k value window and it made me very nervous to pass up other opportunities. Did you get your valuation day of, or did you get a trade estimate and then wait, or what?

I don't see how test drives and trade-in is an "ecosystem" thing, just a good dealer experience?

 

[kpanda17]

Notable Wannabes in the USA , if they can build their ecosystem
Obviously Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis
GM
Ford
Stellantis
Volvo/Polestar
VW
Fisker
Rivian
Lucid

Tesla owners are rooting for all of them

 

[Unobtanium]

Kia and Hyundai def make solid engineered EVs
Respect them
But they are legacy ICE and thus still have all of the bad and missing aspects of why we all went with Tesla
Tesla is setting and raising the bar on the EV ecosystem and what we look for
We want to see all of the EV manufacturers succeed and EVs dominate and help us move away from ICE
Tesla is leading and the best will copy and follow
It’s not just about the EV
It’s about the EV ecosystem

What are the "bad" and "missing" aspects?

 

[Unobtanium]

Notable Wannabes in the USA , if they can build their ecosystem
Obviously Kia, Hyundai, and Genesis
GM
Ford
Stellantis
Volvo/Polestar
VW
Fisker
Rivian
Lucid

Tesla owners are rooting for all of them

I think Lucid, Fisker, Rivian are going to have serious issues. I am still not getting the "ecosystem" thing, though, as noone I know owns anything but a Tesla and a Tesla wall charger to charge their Tesla. Maybe a T-shirt.

 

[kpanda17]

How did that go? They gave me a $10k value window and it made me very nervous to pass up other opportunities. Did you get your valuation day of, or did you get a trade estimate and then wait, or what?

I don't see how test drives and trade-in is an "ecosystem" thing, just a good dealer experience?

You’re missing it
Check with people that have started a lifecycle journey with Tesla to now owning multiple today
From the first touch point, research, collaboration, the first person to make contact, to the local contacts, to understanding the cost of acquisition and ownership, to them just giving me the vehicle for an hour test drive and no weird sales person sitting next to me, we drove all over, to the trade in, closing day, owning, learning, charging, I could go on and on

Teslas design and support are in all parts of the above
Not by accident or chance, but by intent

And one more, Tesla insurance, amazing

 

[Unobtanium]

You’re missing it
Check with people that have started a lifecycle journey with Tesla to now owning multiple today
From the first touch point, research, collaboration, the first person to make contact, to the local contacts, to understanding the cost of acquisition and ownership, to them just giving me the vehicle for an hour test drive and no weird sales person sitting next to me, we drove all over, to the trade in, closing day, owning, learning, charging, I could go on and on

Teslas design and support are in all parts of the above
Not by accident or chance, but by intent

And one more, Tesla insurance, amazing

So...like any other car Ive bought.

Now, as to the insurance...curious how it compares to non-Tesla on similarly priced EVs

This is my 6mo premium

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

The major problem with the EV6 is that it is a KIA, imho. I just can't overcome my perception of Korean cars shaped in the 90th and 00th.

Even Koreans from the mainland and Koreans 2nd and 3rd generation Americans don’t buy Korean cars. In Korea foreign cars are heavily taxed so they are economically challenged when they really want other brands. The only exception is if the (money holder) patriarch is right wing patriotic, pro south anti north communist and anti Japan. Go to a heavily dense Korean American town in the US or a Korean church parking lot and you will see, educated and wealthy Koreans don’t want Korean cars.

Only uneducated Americans in poor areas who can’t afford Hondas and Toyotas would buy them. The lower price tag comes with compromise as evident with Kia Boy Tik Tok videos spawned in the ghetto.

 

[Unobtanium]

Even Koreans from the mainland and Koreans 2nd and 3rd generation Americans don’t buy Korean cars. In Korea foreign cars are heavily taxed so they are economically challenged when they really want other brands. The only exception is if the (money holder) patriarch is right wing patriotic, pro south anti north communist and anti Japan. Go to a heavily dense Korean American town in the US or a Korean church parking lot and you will see, educated and wealthy Koreans don’t want Korean cars.

Only uneducated Americans in poor areas who can’t afford Hondas and Toyotas would buy them. The lower price tag comes with compromise as evident with Kia Boy Tik Tok videos spawned in the ghetto.

Interesting. If we're going for brand pedigree though, its BMW, MB, that type of stuff.

 

[kpanda17]

Sorry, forgot Merc and BMW in the list

 

[Unobtanium]

Sorry, forgot Merc and BMW in the list

The Germans ARE the list, until you get into niche items like Ferrari and so forth.

 

[Yelobird]

The Germans ARE the list, until you get into niche items like Ferrari and so forth

Nothing you are sharing has Anything to do with the thread title. Isn’t there a Kia forum you can banter on about your amazing car?

 

[kpanda17]

Guys, remember those entering or curious about EVs start with Tesla
It’s ok to hang out and ask questions
But
Perspective buyers, try out parts of the Tesla ecosystem, research/cost determination/test drive/tradein/insurance/the app, and then compare to other manuf and you will see how they are far behind

Remember, Elon is playing 4D chess
The rest are playing 2D checkers

 

[Whatstreet]

Nope.

Some of us aren't eligible for the tax credit due to income limits (cough, cough) and Hyundai + Kia offer $7500 lease incentives and you can buyout the lease immediately so a $55K M3P and a $63K EV6 GT are the same price to me.

As for markup... that's been gone for the past 5+ months now in the US. Any dealer with markup is simply shady and most Kia/Hyundai dealers are actually discounting Ioniq 5s and EV6s.

You need to control your income. I'm married and so $300K seems like a reasonable limit. Yeah, at $150K a lot of people wouldn't qualify (cough, cough).

 

[kpanda17]

outside of Tesla, seems Kia/Hyn/Genesis is making some positive strides on their ecosystem, but lets hear from someone with a recent Kia, research and buying experience, all of the steps, inquiry, test drive, cost determination, insurance, purchase process, delivery/closing, and new owning
I would expect some of the steps for a legacy ICE manuf to be like Tesla, are far from perfect, but like they are trying
Last winter, Kia/Hyn/Genesis dealers all said to me, they did not consider Tesla to be competition, wow, and further warned me of significant markups, esp at Genesis
This brought back the negative shivers from my past history of buying ICE, hated it

 

[alexgr]

So...like any other car Ive bought.

Now, as to the insurance...curious how it compares to non-Tesla on similarly priced EVs

This is my 6mo premium
View attachment 943862

I pay about $110/month for Model 3 and about $115/month for Model Y. We destroyed the last letter from State Farm I believe, so I can't find it now. A few months ago the premiums were lower, but that recent insurance price hike applies to all vehicles.

 

[meomyo]

My recommendation is to never buy a first year model - I tell folks to avoid the 2021 ID.4, 2021 Mach-E, and even the 21 RAV4 Prime - which I've all owned and had various issues (R4P more about Toyota not being so cheap and including backlit buttons and 6.6 kW charger by default). Stick with the second year after the manufacturer has fixed issues.

I'm outright telling folks now to avoid the first year of the Cybertruck

i would agree 110%...but so many have to have the newest stuff..like iphones.

 

[kpanda17]

wait, each years iphone builds off the last model/year, the MachE did not build off anything, it was new
avoid brand new, for CT ill wait for the first refresh, M2 as a tweak of the M3, should be ok

 

[meomyo]

Found On Road Dead, FORD
I've own them, but there and done that. No way.
Ford has the highest non OTA recalls of any auto manufacturer by far, Bad engineering. Def Tesla wins as their only stat is a lot of OTA recalls.
Also, Ford is new with EVs and not with my money. Tesla has had 15 years to perfect EVs and not satisficed and keeps being industry leading.
The entire industry is copying Tesla's engineering, software, ecosystem, no dealers, everything.
One more, watch youtube Munro Live review of MachE engineering...not good

1. Ford: 67 recalls, 8,636,265 units
2. Volkswagen Group: 45 recalls, 1,040,885 units
3. Fiat-Chrysler/Stellantis: 38 recalls, 3,041,431 units
4. Mercedes-Benz: 33 recalls, 969,993 units
5. General Motors: 32 recalls, 3,371,302 units
6. Kia: 24 recalls, 1,458,962 units
7. Hyundai: 22 recalls, 1,452,101 units

i agree...i think many buy rivian trucks to "bee different" and still seen as well off.I mean none of the rivians i see use the bed from my observation. They look like bmw/audi drivers not truck guys.
Same will be said when cybertruck comes out

 

[meomyo]

wait, each years iphone builds off the last model/year, the MachE did not build off anything, it was new
avoid brand new, for CT ill wait for the first refresh, M2 as a tweak of the M3, should be ok

my point was its NEW so many have to have it, I mean have to have the newest thing. Like guys who have a 2020 model s and had to have the plaid...so many people see the mach e as a "mustang" and think its a sports car but it looks like a kia or mercedes suv

 

[meomyo]

I think Lucid, Fisker, Rivian are going to have serious issues. I am still not getting the "ecosystem" thing, though, as noone I know owns anything but a Tesla and a Tesla wall charger to charge their Tesla. Maybe a T-shirt.

rivian is already having serious issues...i saw a lucid today at krogers and wonder why not a model s vs the air? I mean why take that 80-100k chance on a company like lucid?