Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

[EarlyM3Owner]

i do have to say, i really enjoy driving the Mach-E. Its a fantastic vehicle and Ford did an amazing job with their first full BEV. But i definitely would not say its better driving dynamics. The infotainment in the Mach-e is a little slow, harder to use (UX is definitely not as good as Tesla) the acceleration is not as smooth, the regen is definitely better in the MY than in the Mach-E, the range is better in the Model Y, charging infrastructure is better in the Model Y, and the look of the car imo is way better in the Model Y than the Mach-E (i really dislike the look of the Mach-E, especially how narrow those wheels are...).

im not going to say the Mach-E is far behind, but definitely not as good.

 

[Unobtanium]

And there's part of the problem. You already know what you want, you've agreed the price and you _know_ they'll still keep trying to sell you stuff.

It also seems to take longer than it should. I just want to "sign then drive."

I asked to buy the warranty prior to even arriving. They didn't push anything at me. It took about 20 minutes, most of which was my bank arranging payment.

 

[MP3Mike]

Its a fantastic vehicle and Ford did an amazing job with their first full BEV.

I think it was their third BEV... Before it came the:

1. Ford Ranger EV
2. Ford Focus Electric

 

[Unclepaul]

It is pretty evident that Ford bench marked the Tesla Model Y (most popular car in the World) as their target for their new Mustang EV. Pretty much copied everything about it. Will be a great choice for loyal Ford fans, looking to go EV.

Pretty good first effort. While nothing really is heads and shoulders above the Model Y, it also does not come up all that short.

Both offer some status, good driving experiences, can run on Sunshine, handle well, are quiet and easy choices for customers choosing to go EV.

The fact that it has sold better than the ICE Mustang variant blows me away.

 

[Unobtanium]

It is pretty evident that Ford bench marked the Tesla Model Y (most popular car in the World) as their target for their new Mustang EV. Pretty much copied everything about it. Will be a great choice for loyal Ford fans, looking to go EV.

Pretty good first effort. While nothing really is heads and shoulders above the Model Y, it also does not come up all that short.

Both offer some status, good driving experiences, can run on Sunshine, handle well, are quiet and easy choices for customers choosing to go EV.

The fact that it has sold better than the ICE Mustang variant blows me away.

I don't really know that. Why would you say that?

 

[MP3Mike]

The fact that it has sold better than the ICE Mustang variant blows me away.

The ICE Mustang isn't a SUV/crossover which is way more popular. Shoot the ICE version isn't even a four-door.

There is a reason that for has discounted pretty much all of their sedans.

 

[voxel]

Toyota has a reputation that they're riding, and that reputation holds strong, as does their resale value, so there is still merit to Toyota.

This statement is proof that Toyota cultists and Toyota’s reputation is holding up their brand. New Toyotas are simply poorly designed. My 23 Sequoia was the worst vehicle I’ve owned and it was a combination of major design flaws. I can’t imagine that twin turbo hybrid (with 18mpg) would be very reliable long term either.

Old Toyotas sure… they are basic and simple.

 

[Unobtanium]

This statement is proof that Toyota cultists and Toyota’s reputation is holding up their brand. New Toyotas are simply poorly designed. My 23 Sequoia was the worst vehicle I’ve owned and it was a combination of major design flaws. I can’t imagine that twin turbo hybrid (with 18mpg) would be very reliable long term either.

Old Toyotas sure… they are basic and simple.

Yeah, but legacy...image takes a long time to build, and can take a long time to die.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Nope.

Premium AWD ER is about $62K which is the same as Model Y LR at $49K... and the Mach-E is only eligible for $3750 tax credit.

Also there's rarely EV markups in the US anymore... too much supply here. In Canada... it's a different problem.

Folks are very price sensitive which is why Toyotas are the top selling cars in the world. I forced my brother to test drive a bunch of EVs while I was visiting him in Austin and he liked the Ioniq 5 best but would buy a Tesla because it's "$10K" cheaper even though it was obviously the lesser car (he didn't care). He's a Sienna and multiple (former) Camry owner. It's no surprise that Toyota owners have flocked to Teslas because it's all about bargain and not quality lol.

It's hard to turn down the huge difference in cost, especially when charging is still an issue for CCS. If NEVI delivers improved infrastructure and user experience then a couple of years could bring a huge shift.

Markups and MSRP are done here as well. I think Hyundai/Kia EV sales have picked up because they caved and started added incentives for purchase and leasing.
$7.5k lease. $5k off an IONIQ5, at $3.75k on a purchase of an EV6 with HyunKia finance. Both in inventory. Anybody want a Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD? Only $59k MSRP, plenty on the lots.

 

[gtae07]

Toyota cultists and Toyota’s reputation is holding up their brand.

Yeah my wife is a big Toyota fan based only on a little 2009 Matrix S she had many years ago. We have a MYLR delivering this week (to be "my" car) but "her" next car is probably going to be some kind of Toyota hybrid next year, unless she warms more to EVs. The one-pedal thing in particular has her unsure and I ordered S3XY buttons mainly to be able to dial down the regen for her (inefficient yes, but it's not like she'll be driving it much).

I really expected Toyota to be leading the legacy automakers on EV technology based on all their hybrid experience, but I think they rested on their laurels too long and got themselves too far entrenched on "hybrid is good enough and BEV is just a fad".

I think it was their third BEV... Before it came the:

1. Ford Ranger EV
2. Ford Focus Electric

True... though both of those were more like compliance cars or quirky experiments. The MME was their first serious effort at a usable and desirable EV with some level of broad market appeal.

 

[Apprunner]

This statement is proof that Toyota cultists and Toyota’s reputation is holding up their brand. New Toyotas are simply poorly designed. My 23 Sequoia was the worst vehicle I’ve owned and it was a combination of major design flaws. I can’t imagine that twin turbo hybrid (with 18mpg) would be very reliable long term either.

Old Toyotas sure… they are basic and simple.

Toyotas have shitty interiors. I have a brand new, near $40k Rav 4 and not impressed. I was also shopping higher end Highlanders and again, not impressed at all. Their stuff is unbreakable but thats the only good thing about Toyotas. Everything else is just blah.

 

[meomyo]

Toyotas have shitty interiors. I have a brand new, near $40k Rav 4 and not impressed. I was also shopping higher end Highlanders and again, not impressed at all. Their stuff is unbreakable but thats the only good thing about Toyotas. Everything else is just blah.

rav 4 is junk....the intertior is very plastic feeling.. the 1st gen rav 4 was really fast for an suv.lol...but ugly.

 

[Unobtanium]

rav 4 is junk....the intertior is very plastic feeling.. the 1st gen rav 4 was really fast for an suv.lol...but ugly.

Former RAV4 Prime XSE owner. Can confirm.

 

[alexgr]

Yeah my wife is a big Toyota fan based only on a little 2009 Matrix S she had many years ago. We have a MYLR delivering this week (to be "my" car) but "her" next car is probably going to be some kind of Toyota hybrid next year, unless she warms more to EVs.

Beware of spouses uninterested in Tesla. It took us about two weeks before "my" Tesla became "her" Tesla. Enjoy your Matrix.

 

[wwu123]

The ICE Mustang isn't a SUV/crossover which is way more popular. Shoot the ICE version isn't even a four-door.

There is a reason that for has discounted pretty much all of their sedans.

The ICE Mustang isn't a sedan, it's a coupe, with major design cues from its original 60's pony car legacy - compact, 2 door, fastback roofline, 2+2 seating, RWD.... But aligns with your point, it's not mass-market, it's niche, nostalgically niche, by design...

 

[chinney]

Nope.

Premium AWD ER is about $62K which is the same as Model Y LR at $49K... and the Mach-E is only eligible for $3750 tax credit.

Also there's rarely EV markups in the US anymore... too much supply here. In Canada... it's a different problem.

Folks are very price sensitive which is why Toyotas are the top selling cars in the world. I forced my brother to test drive a bunch of EVs while I was visiting him in Austin and he liked the Ioniq 5 best but would buy a Tesla because it's "$10K" cheaper even though it was obviously the lesser car (he didn't care). He's a Sienna and multiple (former) Camry owner. It's no surprise that Toyota owners have flocked to Teslas because it's all about bargain and not quality lol.

If you look through the comments associated with that ‘Mach-E Demand Implosion’ YouTube video posted yesterday (a couple of pages back in this thread), many of the complaints from those posting comments, and who are mostly in the USA, are about Ford dealership markups on the Mach-E. And those comments were made very recently. Maybe people in the USA were posting based on past experiences, but I am not entirely sure that Ford dealership markups are necessarily over in the States, despite Ford now accumulating inventory due to lack of sales. Maybe the lack of sales is due to continued markups, at least in part.

Anyway the markups are for sure continuing in Canada. I went to the Ford Canada site and configured a vehicle to match the specs of the one Mach-E vehicle offered by my local Ford dealership (a Premium Edition AWD version). The Ford Canada price came in about $12,000 (Canadian) less than the local dealership price. That is a considerable difference.

The problem is that Ford at both a corporate and dealership level has not found a way to make money on EVs. Officially they are committed to going electric, but they are losing a considerable sum on each vehicle sold. Without big markups on EVs, or even with them, dealerships, and maybe Ford itself, would actually much rather get you into a ICE pickup or SUV.

 

[gtae07]

The problem is that Ford at both a corporate and dealership level has not found a way to make money on EVs.

Yet.

The potential is there and if they continue investing, I think they'll get there. The trick is the super-short ROI horizon demanded by Wall Street; they demand profits now (not five years from now)... and the "death spiral" much like that in defense procurement begins (price goes up, production goes down, price therefore goes up more to try and keep a profit.

 

[meomyo]

The ICE Mustang isn't a sedan, it's a coupe, with major design cues from its original 60's pony car legacy - compact, 2 door, fastback roofline, 2+2 seating, RWD.... But aligns with your point, it's not mass-market, it's niche, nostalgically niche, by design...

it looks like y neighbors mazda cx5...same bubble back..yuk

 

[kpanda17]

funny we have two MachE posts going, I posted it there, but meant to post here
rooting for Ford, GM, but they are not there yet and now both CEOs recognize it

 

[john5520]

I think Ford needs to make a reliable EV first. One of most knowledgeable supportive members who was very helpful to their community, has given up with all the problems he ran into. That is not a good sign. He was the last person I thought would have thrown in the towel.

Looks and well-aligned body panels can only do so much. The other stuff has to work reliably too. Even used car salesman Farley had to come clean:

Quote taken from a CNN article:

“We didn’t know that our wiring harness for Mach-E was 1.6 kilometers longer than it needed to be. We didn’t know it’s 70 pounds heavier and that that’s [cost an extra] $300 a battery,” he said on a call with investors Thursday. “We didn’t know that we underinvested in braking technology to save on the battery size.”

And judging from the other problems, there's a lot more they didn't know apparently. And supposedly they used the Model Y as a template? Doesn't look like it to me.

I bet the used market on these will be huge. After getting stranded a couple times, I see people just dumping them.