Is Tesla Y better than other all electric SUVs?

[thesmokingman]

its from 2008.. that is not how they do it now.. per your own link there is a link to the 2018 testing methods

EPA is not lying but not every manufacturer does the same tests.. the EPA allows way to much flexibility in their testing procedures to come away with the conclusion that two manufacturers are getting an apples to apples sticker rating

Or some just flat out lie about their testing cuz you know, EPA doesn't actually run the tests and just takes their word for it. It's kind of hilarious that most consumers don't even realize this.

Hyundai and Kia to Pay $41.2 Million to 33 States for False EPA Estimates

The settlement comes after a four-year legal battle over the automakers' inflated fuel economy estimates.

www.caranddriver.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/epa-fines-hyundai-kia-for-underreporting-emissions/2014/11/03/528114f4-6370-11e4-9fdc-d43b053ecb4d_story.html

 

[gt2690b]

That is false. I don't think you understood what you posted in that link.

Would love to hear why you think so.. I don’t know what else to tell you except that the epa does not run the tests the manufacturer does and they are all far from running them the same.. that’s why tests like the Bjorne challenge tell more than the EPA ratings

 

[exxxviii]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/epa-fines-hyundai-kia-for-underreporting-emissions/2014/11/03/528114f4-6370-11e4-9fdc-d43b053ecb4d_story.html

That’s a funny blast from the past… the car I traded for my Model Y was a 2012 Hyundai Genesis that was covered in that lawsuit. Hyundai sent me a gas card with funds based on how many miles I drove. It usually paid for a tank or two of gas every year. It only applied to original owners, so they were probably glad to see me go after a decade of their gas card refills.

 

[exxxviii]

Would love to hear why you think so.. I don’t know what else to tell you except that the epa does not run the tests the manufacturer does and they are all far from running them the same.. that’s why tests like the Bjorne challenge tell more than the EPA ratings

The EPA test is 5 cycles. A carmaker can choose whether to use 2 or all 5 to calculate the combined EPA numbers on the Monroney sticker. Tesla is using all 5. Others only use 2 (city and highway). However, the individual results from those cycles (city and highway) are not affected by Tesla's EPA calculation methodology.

The Bjorn test only tests a narrow aspect of EV range, aerodynamics and contact rolling resistance. It ignores almost everything else about EV efficiency. Look at the Taycan.

 

[gt2690b]

The EPA test is 5 cycles. A carmaker can choose whether to use 2 or all 5 to calculate the combined EPA numbers on the Monroney sticker. Tesla is using all 5. Others only use 2 (city and highway). However, the individual results from those cycles (city and highway) are not affected by Tesla's EPA calculation methodology.

The Bjorn test only tests a narrow aspect of EV range, aerodynamics and contact rolling resistance. It ignores almost everything else about EV efficiency. Look at the Taycan.

Yes look at the taycan.. it's EPA range was not tested the same as Tesla

Even my model S has a significantly different EPA rating than my Y both city and highway but the lifetime wh/mi is much closer so Tesla did not even test their original cars the same as the current ones

 

[exxxviii]

Yes look at the taycan.. it's EPA range was not tested the same as Tesla

Even my model S has a significantly different EPA rating than my Y both city and highway but the lifetime wh/mi is much closer so Tesla did not even test their original cars the same as the current ones

Do you believe that Porsche conducted their individual EPA cycles differently from Tesla? I do not think your link supports that belief.

That is why I am saying I don’t think you understand what you posted. Tesla may be calculating their consolidated numbers differently from others. But I don’t think we have any evidence that their individual cycle numbers are different. Therefore, their city numbers and their highway numbers can be compared apples-to-apples with other cars.

What you are not seeing, and the reason I cite the Taycan, is that EPA individual cycle numbers are valuable in providing a holistic view, where a highway-only number does not show a lot of Taycan’s sins.

 

[gt2690b]

Do you believe that Porsche conducted their individual EPA cycles differently from Tesla? I do not think your link supports that belief.

That is why I am saying I don’t think you understand what you posted. Tesla may be calculating their consolidated numbers differently from others. But I don’t think we have any evidence that their individual cycle numbers are different. Therefore, their city numbers and their highway numbers can be compared apples-to-apples with other cars.

What you are not seeing, and the reason I cite the Taycan, is that EPA individual cycle numbers are valuable in providing a holistic view, where a highway-only number does not show a lot of Taycan’s sins.

It's not about what I believe... did they run two of the tests the same as Tesla? Yes..... did those numbers get equally translated to an EPA rating? nope.. here's further reading for you

The Secret Adjustment Factor Tesla Uses to Get Its Big EPA Range Numbers

How Tesla puts distance between itself and the competition while still playing by the EPA's rules.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[exxxviii]

It's not about what I believe... did they run two of the tests the same as Tesla? Yes..... did those numbers get equally translated to an EPA rating? nope

I love C&D, and we are making some progress. We agree that the individual cycle results are OK, that they are comparable between cars.

We differ in that that we are talking about two different things. My point is that we need both city and highway range data to evaluate an EV, not just highway. So I am referencing the individual city and highway EPA metrics. If I understand you correctly, you are focusing on the consolidated EPA range number. We agree that Tesla and Audi are calculating the consolidated numbers differently from others. But I don’t care about that sole number - my point is anchored that both are important.

The reason I cited the Taycan, and you can see it in the C&D article, is that it’s highway-only number hides it’s terrible EV efficiency. Look up Taycan’s individual cycle test numbers for city and highway. It is one of the very few EVs where city is consistently lower than highway. The car has catastrophically bad EV efficiency.

 

[gt2690b]

I love C&D, and we are making some progress. We agree that the individual cycle results are OK, that they are comparable between cars.

We differ in that that we are talking about two different things. My point is that we need both city and highway range data to evaluate an EV, not just highway. So I am referencing the individual city and highway EPA metrics. If I understand you correctly, you are focusing on the consolidated EPA range number. We agree that Tesla and Audi are calculating the consolidated numbers differently from others. But I don’t care about that sole number - my point is anchored that both are important.

The reason I cited the Taycan, and you can see it in the C&D article, is that it’s highway-only number hides it’s terrible EV efficiency. Look up Taycan’s individual cycle test numbers for city and highway. It is one of the very few EVs where city is consistently lower than highway. The car has catastrophically bad EV efficiency.

The Tesla EPA city ratings are also "maxed" out at best with every trick Tesla can pull vs other manufacturers

My 2012 rwd S pretty much gets the city EPA ratings while my Y never does..

But the real point is you can't compare EPA ratings (city or otherwise) between cars because it's a crap shoot

 

[boulder.dude]

Someone who drives primarily city and only charges every few days (apartment dweller) would care about city-only range.

People who can charge daily will be primarily concerned with highway/specific range.

 

[WADan]

Don’t know if you all see this:

Ryan is a fair and level headed guy, and he would not take anything except a Tesla for road trip!

 

[exxxviii]

The Tesla EPA city ratings are also "maxed" out at best with every trick Tesla can pull vs other manufacturers

My 2012 rwd S pretty much gets the city EPA ratings while my Y never does..

But the real point is you can't compare EPA ratings (city or otherwise) between cars because it's a crap shoot

The links you posted do not support any of this.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

R1S is in a different league. Whatever they do to the Model Y (which I suspect will be insignificant) it won’t be half what the R1S is.

so you're saying it'll be an R0.5S then?

 

[EVer Hopeful]

An interesting discussion, but I feel it's mixing two things


Assuming the vehicle has at least a viable range and not 40 miles like the Fit EV. . .

• Long journeys are the only thing that matters when it comes to range as those are the journeys where you will need to plan a charging stop(s)

• Short stop-and-go-around-town journeys don't really matter because it's very unlikely that those will exceed the range of the vehicle in a day[1], and in any event there will be benefits from regenerative braking and no consumption when stopped etc

Now whether or not people feel that way is a completely different matter and equally valid



[1] and that assumes the vehicle owner has the ability to charge at home. The comment about people living in apartments was a valid one

 

[gt2690b]

The links you posted do not support any of this.

take just the taycan, for example... per my link - they subtract 8 miles on the end of their city EPA drive test to ensure they are not screwing over their customers.. other manufacturers do not add any margin.. tesla runs extra tests and takes the best results to reduce their default adjustment factor from 30 to 24%... the bottom line is the city (and highway) EPA MPGe rating is a crapshoot and not an equal measure between different cars... it is not my opinion its stated as such in the links above

 

[exxxviii]

the bottom line is the city (and highway) EPA MPGe rating is a crapshoot and not an equal measure between different cars... it is not my opinion its stated as such in the links above

You are incorrect and that is not what any of this says. That is why I stated earlier that I do not think you understand what you are posting. The City and Highway (and other 3) cycle results are not in question. Neither of your links challenges those. They are illustrating how how Tesla & Audi are using the 5 combined cycles to calculate the consolidated EPA MPGe and range numbers. That is all. I don't think you understand the difference between the individual tests and how they are used to calculate the overall EPA numbers.

Look again at that Taycan to Tesla build-up chart in the C&D article. It is brilliant. The Model S has a 134 mile EPA range advantage over the Taycan. Only 16 of those miles are from Tesla's different calculation methodology (just 5% of the Tesla range). The rest of the difference is because the Taycan sucks, really bad, at EV efficiency. Taycan sucks in probably every possible way. In fact, each of those blocks represents an additional layer of Taycan suck. You could argue that their subjective, voluntary, additional 8 miles of range degradation is because they know they suck and they want to minimize market risk.

I agree with you that the overall EPA numbers are not comparable between Tesla and Audi versus the others. But I disagree that the individual test results are not comparable. Nobody is saying that but you, and you alone.

 

[tangible1]

You are incorrect and that is not what any of this says. That is why I stated earlier that I do not think you understand what you are posting. The City and Highway (and other 3) cycle results are not in question. Neither of your links challenges those. They are illustrating how how Tesla & Audi are using the 5 combined cycles to calculate the consolidated EPA MPGe and range numbers. That is all. I don't think you understand the difference between the individual tests and how they are used to calculate the overall EPA numbers.

Look again at that Taycan to Tesla build-up chart in the C&D article. It is brilliant. The Model S has a 134 mile EPA range advantage over the Taycan. Only 16 of those miles are from Tesla's different calculation methodology (just 5% of the Tesla range). The rest of the difference is because the Taycan sucks, really bad, at EV efficiency. Taycan sucks in probably every possible way. In fact, each of those blocks represents an additional layer of Taycan suck. You could argue that their subjective, voluntary, additional 8 miles of range degradation is because they know they suck and they want to minimize market risk.

I agree with you that the overall EPA numbers are not comparable between Tesla and Audi versus the others. But I disagree that the individual test results are not comparable. Nobody is saying that but you, and you alone.

German auto industry does not do gerspritzensparken.
they do metal bashing.
none of my german car history (porsche, bmw, audi) had electrics worth writing home about.

 

[gt2690b]

...

I agree with you that the overall EPA numbers are not comparable between Tesla and Audi versus the others. But I disagree that the individual test results are not comparable. Nobody is saying that but you, and you alone.

This is all im saying... i'm not saying the individual tests results are not comparable.. but the overall EPA numbers are not (which is all the consumer really notices)

 

[Why?]

MYP is my first EV. Came from an Audi S8. S4 before that. I love the MY. I don’t miss my Audi at all. Charging is fast and easy. I like a firmer ride. Lots of cargo space. The software upgrades aren’t just a novelty. Couldn’t recommend more.

 

[2101Guy]

MYP is my first EV. Came from an Audi S8. S4 before that. I love the MY. I don’t miss my Audi at all. Charging is fast and easy. I like a firmer ride. Lots of cargo space. The software upgrades aren’t just a novelty. Couldn’t recommend more.

Agreed. Now that I have the remote capability for the fart noises, my life is complete.