don't get me started on soccer moms
I once saw one take the passenger side mirror off her Suburban while on her cellphone - she hit a roadside fence with it.
Probably told hubby she was a parking lot vandal victim
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Is Tesla Y better than other all electric SUVs?
- Thread starter CaliforniaTes1
- Start date
I once saw one take the passenger side mirror off her Suburban while on her cellphone - she hit a roadside fence with it.
Probably told hubby she was a parking lot vandal victim
The same could be said of your comments too.
A lot of people do care about range. Not just the big 1000 mile trips, but it affects day trips as well. A weekend at the beach where you don't have to spend a bunch of time chasing down a charger is awful nice.
You seem to be lumping practical do-most-things cars in with town cars which are significantly limited. That's really a separate thing.
exxxviii
Member
Not really, because the point of my posts is that we should not limit "real world" to only be highway range. I am not saying that range is not important, it is simply not the only metric.
Highway range may represent one persons priority, but not everyone's. Rather, we should consider that there are multiple possible real world range criteria and each is useful in its own way, based on the priorities of the individual. Further, when one person says "real world," they might mean one thing but another person would interpret that completely differently. My point is that we should scrap the term "real world" because it is ambiguous. Instead, just talk about 60/70/75 MPH highway range and something like around town rage. I think that the EPA test is a blend of around town and highway with a heavy weighting toward more slow, stop-and-go mileage. Both are equally meaningful and both are equally real world, just different versions of driving use cases.
What is most surprising to me is that my original comment way above was a bit tongue-and-cheek, because people throw that term around all the time and assume that readers share the same interpretation. But it shocked me that some folks have such a strong emotional attachment to their one view of how to judge an electric car without considering that other viewpoints may also exist.
Highway range is the only important range because it's the only range which most people regularly run into problems with.
It's not a matter of "Some people drive in the city and some do cross country driving". Driving 200 miles in the city is just not something people do unless they are running a taxi or deliver service. Even on the highway, that's 3+ hours of driving.
I'd love to hear how you think a non-professional driver is going to clock 200+ miles of city driving.
It's not a strong emotional attachment to a perspective. It's me calling out a "Devil's advocate" for being ridiculous.
exxxviii
Member
This is a perfect example of your strong emotional attachment. You are literally arguing that your view is the only important view.
You are making stuff up to try to support your personal opinion. Do you really know that highway range is the only range in which people run into problems? No; that is made up. You are discounting all other perspectives and driver use cases. Highway range is one way that people run into problems. It is not the only way or most important way or the only way people should evaluate a car.
Your real world is not everyone's real world. Highway range is one of at least two important range metrics for an EV.
Rather than bother to give a single concrete example of how someone would actually confront your fantasy scenario, you continue to attack me and paint this story of a "Strong emotional attachment".
When you have nothing to contribute, do you always resort to ad-hock?
exxxviii
Member
My position is defensible, yours is not. I am arguing that people view range differently based on individual priorities. You are arguing that there is only one way that people should judge EV range, and that is highway miles. In order for you to defend your position, you would have to show that nobody has another opinion different from yours, which you cannot do. In order for me to defend mine, I merely have to offer my opinion that me and the friends I know with EVs prioritize local range over highway range. If you want more, look at the EPA - they have three range metrics. Or, look at the major car review publications that typically share 2 range metrics.
I think you meant "ad hominem," which I did not do.
exxxviii
Member
One more meaningful counterpoint: "The EPA estimates that the Long Range model is good for 131 MPGe in the city and 117 MPGe." There you have it. The EPA publishes two range numbers for the Model Y. The MPGe metric is kind of contrived, but you can easily do the math to calculate the Model Y's city range, if the extended the test to a full charge. That anyone else tests this is not relevant. City range/efficiency is one of the primary metrics that people use to evaluate EVs.
“Is the Tesla Y better than all other SUVs”
Yes, of course.
GSP
Yes, of course.
GSP
One thing i didnt realize originally is that Tesla does their EPA testing very different than Kia or Porsche.... EPA range is NOT an apples to apples test... the closest thing we have is "driving on the highway at 70mph" in different cars
The EPA does testing and confirmation testing.
These are standardized tests across all brands.
That is not how I've interpreted it:
How Does Tesla Get The Most Out Of EPA Range Testing?
Tesla's EVs are known to have more EPA range than most rivals, but real-world tests vary. This video delivers a brief and informative explanation as to why.
insideevs.com
From the article... "Tesla vehicles' range estimates seem to be a bit more unrealistic than the competition. He also says it's not Tesla's fault, and they're not "gaming the system," since all automakers could follow the same rules and processes. Dykes believes the problem here is that there's not a single standard for EPA testing,"
exxxviii
Member
Which omits all the strengths a car might have in low speed regen and battery management. There are two very important dimensions to understanding EV range. Highway range is great, because it emphasizes aerodynamic and rolling resistance efficiency. Low speed is important because it emphasizes regen and battery management. Together (but not combined as the singular EPA number), they tell a complete story.
Look at a car like the Taycan... if Porsche didn't screw up the EPA testing, then that car has cataclysmically bad low speed efficiency. I would really want to know that in thinking about the car. (In fact, a good friend of mine rejected his Taycan order for a Model S partially because of this; he would have to recharge the Taycan more than 2x as often as the S.)
And if you read what Tesla is doing differently in its EPA testing, it plays to the strengths of EVs in general. But it only changes the one number published on a car's Monroney sticker. It does not affect the highway and city numbers, since those are two of the five cycles. I'm pretty sure that Tesla's individual EPA city and highway numbers are apples-to-apples comparable to other cars. The fact other manufacturers are not doing it truly makes them the fools.
These are the standardized EPA tests
www.fueleconomy.gov
Detailed Test Information
EPA tests vehicles by running them through a series of driving routines, or schedules, that specify vehicle speed for each point in time during the laboratory tests.
www.fueleconomy.gov
Unfortunately they are not apples to apples comparison as demonstrated in my link above
exxxviii
Member
LOL wtf you downvoted a link to the EPA ev standardized testing procedures? 
yeah they are totally lying man.
yeah they are totally lying man.
i agree that every 175 miles makes sense. if you leave home with 100% battery you're probably looking at 200 to 250 miles for the first stop, then charging from 10 - 15% to 80%. charging from 80% is too slow, even with a nicely warm battery.
its from 2008.. that is not how they do it now.. per your own link there is a link to the 2018 testing methodsLOL wtf you downvoted a link to the EPA ev standardized testing procedures?
EPA is not lying but not every manufacturer does the same tests.. the EPA allows way to much flexibility in their testing procedures to come away with the conclusion that two manufacturers are getting an apples to apples sticker rating
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