CCS Charging options for Model 3

[stopcrazypp]

So now they know that if they put CCS on Model 3, you will purchase a Model 3. If not, you will purchase a Model S...
Are you sure this will help?

Lol, I had the same exact thought. Anyone writing that letter should leave that part completely off. Tesla does not want people buying a Model 3 instead of a Model S, so this is a reason against adding a CCS port on the Model 3.

 

[widodh]

Lol, I had the same exact thought. Anyone writing that letter should leave that part completely off. Tesla does not want people buying a Model 3 instead of a Model S, so this is a reason against adding a CCS port on the Model 3.

My point was that if 3 gets CCS S and X will to. No way 3 gets CCS and their flagship does not

 

[AceSkywalker]

Differing and competing charging standards is one of the biggest threats to EV adoption. Without harmony between ALL automotive manufacturers to create one standard to rule them all, potential growth is stunted - charger networks and market share.

I don't care whatever the plug's aesthetics are, as long as it does its job of dumping stupid amounts of electricity into the car's systems safely and effectively. Its the same attitude I have towards Apple fanboys whining that the proprietary Lightning cable "feels better" than USB-C (it charges your device and transfers data FFS).

 

[widodh]

Differing and competing charging standards is one of the biggest threats to EV adoption. Without harmony between ALL automotive manufacturers to create one standard to rule them all, potential growth is stunted - charger networks and market share.

I don't care whatever the plug's aesthetics are, as long as it does its job of dumping stupid amounts of electricity into the car's systems safely and effectively. Its the same attitude I have towards Apple fanboys whining that the proprietary Lightning cable "feels better" than USB-C (it charges your device and transfers data FFS).

I agree. To me CCS seems the best option as it does AC and DC with high currents.

The average person should be able to charge anywhere without needing to know standards, current, power, connectors. Just plug and charge without any hassle.

 

[FlyingKiwi]

I agree. To me CCS seems the best option as it does AC and DC with high currents.

The average person should be able to charge anywhere without needing to know standards, current, power, connectors. Just plug and charge without any hassle.

To a point.. at some point connectors will need to change to enable more of something.. more current, more voltage or charger supplied coolant to enable faster charging. So long as it doesn't get to too many competing standards I don't see a problem, ICE drivers seem to mostly cope okay with gas pumps with three+ hoses and knowing whether the vehicle they drive needs regular, premium or diesel. At least with EV connectors you wont be able to put the wrong one in and actually do damage to your car like you can with gas/diesel.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Of course, making an inlet for the Model 3 that can do "all of the above" is the most customer-friendly solution. However, that doesn't mean that they'll do it.

My main reason for skepticism is the high level of integration of the charging system into the Model 3 battery pack. Many of the parts shown in the picture below were packaged under the back seat in the Model S or placed somewhere else in the car. The additional DC pins on the CCS Type-2 would require additional connections to the pack. You must have additional contactors for each HVDC contact. For example, when Supercharging through the Type-2 main pins, the CCS DC pins could be exposed, so they must be de-energized separately from the active wires used for SuperCharging.

Why not put secondary contactors near / in the taillight charge port area which toggle the HVDC battery connection between the CCS and Tesla pins? That would save making changes to the pack infrastructure. The contactors could be controlled via the in vehicle network (CAN or whatever), which likely already has a connection in that area to talk to Superchargers and such?

 

[Model 3]

My point was that if 3 gets CCS S and X will to. No way 3 gets CCS and their flagship does not

Yes, I did guess that this was what you meant, but as you wrote it, it could easily be misunderstood like I pointed out. And as you saw, I'm not the only one reading it this way... So if you haven't send that mail yet, you should probably make that part a bit more precise.

 

[KarenRei]

My point was that if 3 gets CCS S and X will to. No way 3 gets CCS and their flagship does not

The charge ports on the S and X are too small to fit combo. Model 3, on the other hand, inexplicably has a massive space for the charge port.

 

[Jeff N]

...using a prototype charger to counter my assertion about the definition of "150kW" is kind of weak. There are many counter-examples like the BTC chargers that are "50kW" and have maximums of 500V and 100A. We both know that different chargers have different design limits and some are closer to their marketing numbers than others.

A couple of points. First, at least some of those EVgo BTC chargers are being upgraded. I sometimes stop in Madera, CA and in recent weeks first one and then the other charger displayed new software/firmware versions and now charge at up to around 125A. This is verified by the charging power displayed inside the car and also on the charger display. On this photo, it shows 130A:

Also, I'm guessing we will see few CCS chargers on the market which are limited to 300A.

Testing has shown that CCS can charge at up to 250A without active cooling of the cable and plug so I think we may see some charging products like that since they would inherently be less expensive and perhaps more reliable. Maybe they would be seen more frequently in community charging or less-traveled rural highway charging locations.

Chargers that include active cooling can be rated at 350A or higher so I doubt that it makes sense for anyone to sell an actively cooled CCS charger that is rated for less than 350A. So far, the only two next-generation charging product vendors that have known specifications (ABB and ChargePoint) both support at least 350A.

The main point of my post was that there was nothing to worry about with 150kW chargers because they were roughly equivalent to Superchargers and there was little or no wasted capacity and the car didn't need to tolerate higher C-rates or need any more cooling.

Agreed. The difference between 350A and 370A is minimal for today's cars especially because cars which might initially draw up to 370A will quickly ramp down the amps as the charging voltage increases. They aren't likely to spend much time charging at 370A vs 350A. As time goes on, we will see cars that can take significant advantage of greater than 350A which is why ChargePoint and a few others are pushing for 400A but those future cars will probably be making the transition to charge at twice today's voltage which will again drop their amperage requirements far below 350A.

 

[widodh]

The charge ports on the S and X are too small to fit combo. Model 3, on the other hand, inexplicably has a massive space for the charge port.

Right now, yes. But that does not mean it can’t change

 

[miimura]

A couple of points. First, at least some of those EVgo BTC chargers are being upgraded. I sometimes stop in Madera, CA and in recent weeks first one and then the other charger displayed new software/firmware versions and now charge at up to around 125A. This is verified by the charging power displayed inside the car and also on the charger display. On this photo, it shows 130A:

That is really fantastic news if BTC can remove the 100A limitation and let their chargers deliver the full 50kW, even at lower battery pack voltages. I would be happy if we could get ANY chargers more than 50kW. Even the smallest configuration of the ChargePoint Express Plus at 62.5kW can output 156 amps. That is a really meaningful speedup for the existing cars that can take it.

 

[widodh]

I got a call back from Tesla that they had multiple customers asking about CCS and they noted my request and will pass it on.

To show, in Germany later this year the first 150kW charging will open next to a SuperCharger (Geiselwind): E.ON errichtet eine der ersten kommerziellen, ultraschnellen Ladestationen am Autohof Strohofer im bayerischen Geiselwind

And the charger from Abb: http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp202/42D0CA91A48EC1D6C12581AE002A07C2.aspx

 

[widodh]

Crosspost to other topic: [Rumor] Tesla to adopt 'local' charging stations: CCS/CHAdeMO/GB

If that's true we might see CCS on S/X/3 in the future. Let's hope so!

 

[KarenRei]

I got a call back from Tesla that they had multiple customers asking about CCS and they noted my request and will pass it on.

To show, in Germany later this year the first 150kW charging will open next to a SuperCharger (Geiselwind): E.ON errichtet eine der ersten kommerziellen, ultraschnellen Ladestationen am Autohof Strohofer im bayerischen Geiselwind

And the charger from Abb: ABB powers e-mobility with launch of first 150-350 kW high power charger

FYI, 150kW CCS charging is kind of a gimmick; it's based on a major boost to the voltage, which nobody can actually use.

 

[KarenRei]

Don't think they'll ever do CHAdeMO unless Japan mandates tech that's going obsolete.

Please, CharIN, hurry up and get us out of this mess with a new, *forward-looking*, *global* standard...

*** Support for very high voltages (e.g. 2+kV), very high currents (e.g.~1200A when optional cooling is used, 350A without it), and the vehicle-end connector having the option to either route any optionally provided coolant through a heat exchanger, or simply back up the cable. *That* would scale to a future of electric semis and super-fast charging large battery packs in passenger vehicles.

Ideally I'd also hope they take Tesla's approach of multi-use pins rather than needlessly dedicating a pin to every single type of usage, and thus making the connectors pointlessly huge. So two big pins for both DC and single phase AC, an extra smaller pin for a third AC phase, a common ground, and a minimum of data/sense pins (or IR, or other pinless system).

 

[transpondster]

FYI, 150kW CCS charging is kind of a gimmick; it's based on a major boost to the voltage, which nobody can actually use.

you probably mixed 350kW with 150

Don't think they'll ever do CHAdeMO unless Japan mandates tech that's going obsolete.

Please, CharIN, hurry up and get us out of this mess with a new, *forward-looking*, *global* standard...

CHAdeMO will probably remain as Japans standard and slowly die out elsewhere when Nissan switches to local ones outside Japan.
There isn't global standard and probably won't be...

 

[KarenRei]

you probably mixed 350kW with 150

Who makes a high current 150kW CCS?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Who makes a high current 150kW CCS?

ABBs Terra HP can do 375A. That's more than Tesla at ~330A.

 

[KarenRei]

Terra HP is a 350kW charger. It's downrated to 150kW when charging real vehicles (nominal 400V) rather than fictional high voltage ones. And afaik there are no public installs of it (correct me if I'm wrong about that)

I'm talking about the much more common "150kW" chargers that cap out at 150-200A - "150kW" because they support double the voltage.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Is the new port on the Model S and X for CCS charging?

Will the Model 3 get these ports also?

Tesla unveils new dual connector charge port design for Model S and Model X