CCS for Model 3 in North America

[Jeff N]

ALL the CCS stalls in Rhode Island are 50 kw max, and quite a few are only 24 kw. Many are not really accessible,since they are at car dealerships which are often unfriendly to competing brands, and closed (fenced) off hours and weekends. The Tesla SC is 120 kw. If one includes all the destination chargers there are more Tesla chargers. Not that much difference between 17 kw and 24kw.

There is an Electrify America site under development at the Walmart at 51 Silver Spring St in Providence that should be open in the next several months.

Today there is one Supercharger site in RI in Greenwich although another one is in development just across the border in Seekonk, MA.

Electrify America is undergoing a big buildout this year and says they will have about 500 sites open across the US by the end of 2019. Here’s a map showing approximate locations planned to be open by the end of 2019 near Rhode Island:

The full map is:

This shows “Cycle 1” locations. More are being added in Cycle 2 which begins in July 2019 so a few of those may be open by the end of 2019 as well.

In addition to the Providence Electrify America site there are 10 other CCS sites scattered around Rhode Island today although they are 50 kW or less.

This map image is from PlugShare:

 

[wk057]

Not questioning your technical analysis, but the leaked pictures we saw clearly show the European CCS adapter in a Model S (Model 3 obviously wouldn't make sense in Europe).

The European S & X have new charger-related option codes so they are most likely being built with the necessary internal CCS hardware. Tesla already stated that existing European S & X would require a hardware upgrade (before being able to use the passive adapter).

^ This.

The passive adapter won't work with Gen1, Gen2, or Gen3.0 chargers (basically every Model S/X built until a few months ago). There is a Gen 3.1 (not 100% sure the actual version, but I'm calling it 3.1) that can do PLC for CCS, hence the passive adapter. Probably should be able to retrofit into the Model X and facelift Model S, but not into pre-facelift S, unless they come up with some other hardware retrofit for it.

The Model 3 HPC (charger) can do this as well, as far as I'm aware.

 

[wk057]

Also, before I forget... the supercharger "CCS" connectors aren't really CCS... they're superchargers in CCS clothing. So a passive adapter could make those work with any S/X... but not "real" CCS stations.

Or, put another way, the CCS connectors at superchargers can't currently charge non-Tesla vehicles (unless they eventually modify the hardware on the charger side to support this, which might happen someday).

 

[MD-2000]

A good design for a self-powered adapter - rechargeable battery, that charges off the current while charging the car - plus an embedded solar panel on the top(say, about the size of an iPhone) plus the ability to plug it into USB to charge. Then the only time the active adapter is dead is if you completely forget about it and hide it in the frunk. You either toss it in the back seat to charge with solar (ambient light), or plug it into USB. With a bit of planning ahead, it's ready to go long enough to get charging started.

(Worst case, can you get a 15-foot USB cord and run it while plugged in? Clunky, but better than not charging).

 

[Wennfred]

Also, before I forget... the supercharger "CCS" connectors aren't really CCS... they're superchargers in CCS clothing.

Hold it one minute, you’re calling a 50kw station a supercharger?

Turn in your Tesla Badge in by end of day

Fred

 

[transpondster]

Hold it one minute, you’re calling a 50kw station a supercharger?

Turn in your Tesla Badge in by end of day

Fred

no, I think he meant European "CCS" connectors on superchargers are just connectors, but not real CCS.

 

[TheMrX]

Dear fellow Canadians,

I decided to reach Tesla support this morning, by phone, trying to pressure a bit on the North America CCS compatibility issue.

On the my question : ''is there a roadmap/timeline for some kind of adapter for CCS charging for North America?''

The nice lady answered : ''I can't tell you about an exact date, because it hasn't been released yet. BUT what I can tell you, is that we are working on one, so yeah, it will be available this year, but I can't tell you exactly when''

Dear Lady, she just made my day!

 

[EfficientWatts]

^ This.

The passive adapter won't work with Gen1, Gen2, or Gen3.0 chargers (basically every Model S/X built until a few months ago). There is a Gen 3.1 (not 100% sure the actual version, but I'm calling it 3.1) that can do PLC for CCS, hence the passive adapter. Probably should be able to retrofit into the Model X and facelift Model S, but not into pre-facelift S, unless they come up with some other hardware retrofit for it.

The Model 3 HPC (charger) can do this as well, as far as I'm aware.

To clarify, are you saying the hardware to do PLC for CCS is present in the NA Model 3 cars already?

 

[Knightshade]

Dear fellow Canadians,

I decided to reach Tesla support this morning, by phone, trying to pressure a bit on the North America CCS compatibility issue.

On the my question : ''is there a roadmap/timeline for some kind of adapter for CCS charging for North America?''

The nice lady answered : ''I can't tell you about an exact date, because it hasn't been released yet. BUT what I can tell you, is that we are working on one, so yeah, it will be available this year, but I can't tell you exactly when''

Dear Lady, she just made my day!

FWIW Tesla support has been telling people who ask that a ChaDEmo adapter for the 3 is also something they are "working on" and "coming soon" since 2017. Still can't buy one though.

 

[Saghost]

FWIW Tesla support has been telling people who ask that a ChaDEmo adapter for the 3 is also something they are "working on" and "coming soon" since 2017. Still can't buy one though.

That one I really don't understand. There isn't that much difference in architecture between the 3 and the S/X, and there's been a CHAdeMO adapter for them for years. You'd think a simple firmware update to that would suffice.

 

[MD-2000]

Hold it one minute, you’re calling a 50kw station a supercharger?

Turn in your Tesla Badge in by end of day

Fred

My NEMA14-50 plug at home does 32A at 240V, so about 8kW which adds 47km/hr. I would be happy with anything that was significantly faster than that in the charger desert that is North Dakota. 50kW by that calculation would be over 6 times faster... almost tolerable for cross-country if you had no other choices.

(But yes, over an hour for a decent charge is not good...)

 

[theredviper]

Dear fellow Canadians,

I decided to reach Tesla support this morning, by phone, trying to pressure a bit on the North America CCS compatibility issue.

On the my question : ''is there a roadmap/timeline for some kind of adapter for CCS charging for North America?''

The nice lady answered : ''I can't tell you about an exact date, because it hasn't been released yet. BUT what I can tell you, is that we are working on one, so yeah, it will be available this year, but I can't tell you exactly when''

Dear Lady, she just made my day!

Thanks for calling. One can only hope.

Was this rep in the US somewhere? Remotely close to Fremont?

As others have stated, level 1 tech support has said everything from 100% yes to 100% no when asked about Chademo for the 3.

 

[Rocky_H]

My NEMA14-50 plug at home does 32A at 240V, so about 8kW which adds 47km/hr. I would be happy with anything that was significantly faster than that in the charger desert that is North Dakota. 50kW by that calculation would be over 6 times faster... almost tolerable for cross-country if you had no other choices.

(But yes, over an hour for a decent charge is not good...)

Yeah, exactly! I have an old Model S with just the single 40A charger in it, so even at a good power AC charging, 9-10 kW is all I can get. When I had a trip a couple of years ago that went up and down the 101 highway in Oregon, it didn't have any Superchargers yet, but I was using the Aerovironment (now named Webasto) network of CHAdeMO stations quite a lot. They do get between 45 and 50 kW most of the time, so they are definitely a good solid speed that is about half of Supercharger speed.

 

[ivan801]

I've been spoiled by 120 kw rates as a Tesla owner, but in my previous life I was a Nissan Leaf owner, and 50 kw charge rate was sufficient. If you are having a nice dinner while you charge 50kw will easily top off your battery. Even a fast food meal can take you from 20% to 60% or something like that.

 

[jboy210]

FWIW Tesla support has been telling people who ask that a ChaDEmo adapter for the 3 is also something they are "working on" and "coming soon" since 2017. Still can't buy one though.

You ever see the adapter. It is huge and expensive, $602. You have to charge a heck of a lot at Chademo only spots to need one of these. I only know one X/S owner that has one. I can see why making it work with the 3 is not on the top of Teslas list..

 

[Can37]

I hope Tesla gets this done soon. I like to travel in Quebec and there are quite large gaps in the SC network in popular areas but there are CCS 50kW L3s everywhere. I have an e-Golf and I can travel to places I might struggle to reach in my SR+

Tesla Canada likes to complain that Tesla owners don't get the benefit of the publicly funded charging networks. Making an adapter available is a lot more palatable than giving Tesla public money to deploy proprietary charging.

 

[peakshaving]

To clarify, are you saying the hardware to do PLC for CCS is present in the NA Model 3 cars already?

To clarify, are you saying the hardware to do PLC for CCS is present in the NA Model 3 cars already?

There's a TMS320 on the NA Model 3 power conversion system that should be able to do PLC. I also don't see different region parts for the charging system (other than the plugs and covers) so I'm guessing the internal systems are the same across regions.

Might be completely wrong so feel free to correct me. My embedded systems experience only goes as far as writing assembly for a raspberry pi.

 

[Rottenapplr]

Here's another reason why I think we need CCS support: to avoid becoming completely dependent on a single company that can change prices at will. Case in point, in Germany Tesla just raised the rates to 0.42 EUR/kWh, which is roughly twice the previous minute-based pricing, and more expensive than driving on Diesel (see this video if you understand German). In contrast, the big roaming providers typically charge about 0.25-0.30 EUR per kWh. Now Model 3 drivers in Europe are in a good position, because they can simply switch to another network. Model S/X drivers don't have that option as long as there is no CCS adapter ...

Regarding Chademo, not only is the adapter expensive, unwieldy and limited to 50kW, it is also pretty clear that Chademo is dying in the US. Nissan is the only car maker left that still sells cars with Chademo here, and that will not be enough to keep it economically viable in the next few years as more and more CCS cars go on sale. So yes, I would much prefer CCS. Not sure if the situation is different in Canada though (is there some entity like Electrify America that is pumping hundreds of millions primarily into CCS infrastructure?).

Hmmmm
Maybe that’s why they’re not enthusiastically supporting m3 owners ability to charge on other standards because it will lessen their ability to
Charge you at a supercharger if you go to another network.

I stayed at a hotel the other night with free ChargePoint charger next to the 10 supercharger stalls. Since I was staying at the hotel I used ChargePoint and charge up to 100% overnight.

 

[davewill]

Hmmmm
Maybe that’s why they’re not enthusiastically supporting m3 owners ability to charge on other standards because it will lessen their ability to
Charge you at a supercharger if you go to another network.

I stayed at a hotel the other night with free ChargePoint charger next to the 10 supercharger stalls. Since I was staying at the hotel I used ChargePoint and charge up to 100% overnight.

So, you're that guy! I hope some poor LEAF owner didn't limp in to find the only plug they can use plugged into a Tesla that had 10 other plugs to choose from. You'd really block the single plug that other EVs can use to save a couple of bucks?

 

[davewill]

Well, that's different. Your post made it sound like it was the only one. If there were plenty of plugs to choose from, then I completely get why you'd choose an overnight L2 charge over a DC charge.

You can color me a bit sensitive. I had a situation recently where a Tesla owner parked (not even charging) in the one of only two DC charging spots (the other one was ICEd) at a mall that had a Supercharger, leaving a LEAF and my RAV4 taking turns sitting in the lane behind him trying to get a charge.

I didn't call you any names. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.