Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[eleison]

(New) GM has a reputation of fulfilling promises it makes...and on time. Unlike some other manufacturers.

GM created the bolt basically within 1 year IIRC. Man, GM may not make S3XY electric cars..... But, imagine if the sports car division of GM got with the Electric car division. Something like an electrified Corvette Stringray. That would be so awesome.

Right now, the only competitive advantage that Tesla seems to have is a charismatic CEO and perhaps, the gigafactory. But the gigafactory is suppose to bring down the cost of batteries/cars. I'm not sure how well that is going since a model 3 that is decently equipped is still reaching entry level luxury prices.

To be honest, I am scared for Tesla. At least for Tesla's plan to go mainstream.

 

[Merrill]

GM created the bolt basically within 1 year IIRC. Man, GM may not make S3XY electric cars..... But, imagine if the sports car division of GM got with the Electric car division. Something like an electrified Corvette Stringray. That would be so awesome.

Right now, the only competitive advantage that Tesla seems to have is a charismatic CEO and perhaps, the gigafactory. But the gigafactory is suppose to bring down the cost of batteries/cars. I'm not sure how well that is going since a model 3 that is decently equipped is still reaching entry level luxury prices.

To be honest, I am scared for Tesla. At least for Tesla's plan to go mainstream.

How about an all electric Jaguar F type.

 

[McRat]

There is a Corvette in GM's Battery Lab. And they registered "E-Ray" as a trademark.

There were pics on the web, but I can't find any. GM is pretty aggressive if somebody takes pictures in no-photo areas.

However, I asked Cadillac's Race Director, and their 2 top drivers in a public meeting about KERS technology. GM is against the trend due to the high costs associated the technology. But they were vague when cornered with "so you will run pure-ICE efforts in a field of KERS cars?". They changed the subject. Chevrolet Racing and Cadillac Racing do share tech to an extent.

It is possible the vette seen was a KERS project for a C8R.

 

[Saghost]

GM created the bolt basically within 1 year IIRC. Man, GM may not make S3XY electric cars..... But, imagine if the sports car division of GM got with the Electric car division. Something like an electrified Corvette Stringray. That would be so awesome.

Right now, the only competitive advantage that Tesla seems to have is a charismatic CEO and perhaps, the gigafactory. But the gigafactory is suppose to bring down the cost of batteries/cars. I'm not sure how well that is going since a model 3 that is decently equipped is still reaching entry level luxury prices.

To be honest, I am scared for Tesla. At least for Tesla's plan to go mainstream.

This really isn't the thread for it, but you seem to be ignoring or overlooking quite a few things - Supercharger network, free OTA updates, large fleet of cars watching every second of the drive using neural networks and sending back items of interest and mapping information, and so on.

I'm not saying GM can't take Tesla on head to head if they decide to - just that Tesla's advantages extend far beyond the gigafactory right now.

 

[wdolson]

Very interesting is the new battery platform due in 2021. 30+% cheaper than the Bolt's pack, higher energy density, improved fast charging speeds, and it's modular, so can be put into anything from a sleek sports car to a huge 7 passenger luxury SUV.

Tesla has been put on notice.

edit: also of note is GM finally committing to invest in charging infrastructure.

I kind of suspect Tesla won't be standing still either. Everybody is talking about all this innovation GM and others are doing and comparing where they will be somewhere in the 2020s to where Tesla is today. Tesla won't be where it is today in the 2020s either.

 

[bro1999]

Very interesting developments. I peruse another forum (forum.leashackr.com) that provides all kinds of leasing info, and there's a rather large Bolt EV lease thread on the forum. According to several Chevy dealers in CA that sell Bolts in volume, they are either completely out of stock or very low on Bolt inventory at the moment, and are waiting for new shipments to come in. Seems Bolts have been flying off of lots this month, no doubt with an assist from the GOP House trying to kill the EV tax credit. That and more and more people realizing the Bolt is a plain very good every day car.

 

[schonelucht]

GM also introduced the Bolt at the Dubai motor show and will start selling the car in the M-E region next year. Seems like Opel gets the short stick : only a very small portion of Bolt production goes to Europe despite rising prices due to demand. With states that give ZEV credits running low on inventory that's more bad news for Opel reservation holders in terms of available supply.

 

[AndY1]

BoltEV is practically finished in Europe. There's no GM presence in Europe, neither as a Chevrolet or Opel.
And as I've read, PSA will be suing GM. Something about Opel purchase.

I've given up on AmperaE and I'm waiting for KonaEV.

 

[bro1999]

BoltEV is practically finished in Europe. There's no GM presence in Europe, neither as a Chevrolet or Opel.
And as I've read, PSA will be suing GM. Something about Opel purchase.

I've given up on AmperaE and I'm waiting for KonaEV.

PSA inherits massive emissions problem from Opel deal | Business | DW | 29.11.2017

Sounds like PSA should have "kicked the tires" a little more before making the deal.

Of note, 1,500 Ampera-e's sold this year in Europe. Who would have guessed Ampera-E sales alone would have eclipsed Model 3 sales this year heading into December?

 

[AndY1]

Yep, a compliance car.

Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla:

“So just for example gives GM roughly – from my count, $7,000 to $10,000 advantage over Tesla for their Chevy Bolt.

That’s why you shouldn’t ask like why, well, GM appears to be losing $10,000 a car on the Bolt. No, they’re not. They are making it up on CARB credits.”

In the same interview, Musk also dropped a strong hint as to why GM doesn’t really seem to be pushing the sale of its sweet, all-electric 238-mile Bolt:

“But the CARB credits are only effective at a production rate of about 20,000 to 30,000 vehicles a year. So that’s why you’ll see, mark my words, it’s not going to be any higher than that for the Chevy Bolt. That’s on order of 25,000 units a year,…”

And the same goes for Europe:

The figure is especially damaging to Opel now, as the Ampere-e is (or possibly, was) a key part of PSA’s plan to reduce emissions to meet incoming EU standards. If they don’t meet the new CO2 limit standards, which come into effect in 2021, they will face hundreds of millions in fines each year until they do.

 

[bro1999]

Yep, a compliance car.



And the same goes for Europe:

Please, give the compliance car silliness a rest. Bury it 6 feet under even. You think the Bolt is just a "compliance car", even though GM is basing its entire self-driving taxi effort around the Bolt? The Bolt allows GM to meet compliance requirements, but to call it a compliance car and lump it with the Focus Electrics and 500e's of the world is plain silly.

Is the Model X purely a compliance ZEV credit generator, since the Bolt has outsold it this year?

 

[AndY1]

If you only make number of cars to fulfill government quota while losing money, it's a compliance car.

Even we, the GM defenders, now recognize it. Yes, it's a compliance car and a testbed for the next generation of EVs.

 

[scaesare]

Right now, the only competitive advantage that Tesla seems to have is a charismatic CEO and perhaps, the gigafactory.

 

[ZsoZso]

Is the Model X purely a compliance ZEV credit generator, since the Bolt has outsold it this year?

Don't be so hasty to declare victory before the last 2 months of data comes in.
Worldwide sales of the X is going to be over 40,000 in 2017 definitely, possibly even over 50,000.
Are you suggesting there will be more than 40K Bolt sales this year ?
They would need to more than double their sales so far in the last 2 months to achieve that...

ps: BTW, the Model X costs at least twice as much as a Bolt, based on general car industry sales patterns, half the price should correspond to 10x the sales volume! So wake me up when Bolt is sold 10x the Model X.

 

[wdolson]

Please, give the compliance car silliness a rest. Bury it 6 feet under even. You think the Bolt is just a "compliance car", even though GM is basing its entire self-driving taxi effort around the Bolt? The Bolt allows GM to meet compliance requirements, but to call it a compliance car and lump it with the Focus Electrics and 500e's of the world is plain silly.

Is the Model X purely a compliance ZEV credit generator, since the Bolt has outsold it this year?

The Bolt has outsold the X in the US, but worldwide sales of the X are significantly higher.

If you only make number of cars to fulfill government quota while losing money, it's a compliance car.

Even we, the GM defenders, now recognize it. Yes, it's a compliance car and a testbed for the next generation of EVs.

I agree. Today's Bolt is a compliance car. It's built in small numbers and while it is available outside of CARB states it isn't available in very large numbers outside of CARB states. Unlike many of the mainstream car makers, GM does appear to be a bit more serious about developing real EVs.

Tesla makes a hefty profit per car sold. They only lose money overall because they have a huge R&D and expansion overhead. GM makes money overall, but it costs them more to make each Bolt than they sell for. The former is a pattern of a startup trying to make their mark, the latter is the pattern of a compliance car.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@wdolson A thought exercise:

What if you consider Bolt a startup within GM, instead of lumping it up with the compliance cars of old?

The thought process at least changes, when you consider Bolt the start of something. If so, because it is a startup within the big company, and it still isn't a profitable one, its immediate impact is limited, but the bigger question is where is it all leading... and IMO that can change the equation.

We shall see, of course.

 

[wdolson]

@wdolson A thought exercise:

What if you consider Bolt a startup within GM, instead of lumping it up with the compliance cars of old?

The thought process at least changes, when you consider Bolt the start of something. If so, because it is a startup within the big company, and it still isn't a profitable one, its immediate impact is limited, but the bigger question is where is it all leading... and IMO that can change the equation.

We shall see, of course.

If you're a start up and you're selling something for more than it costs you to make it, you're probably not going to be in business very long. It is a strategy profitable companies use to comply with local regulations though.

 

[FlatSix911]

Chevy Bolt EV US sales hit new records – reaching over 20,000 units to date
November was another good month for GM’s Chevy Bolt EV US sales. The electric vehicle hit a new record with almost 3,000 units sold in one month – bringing the total to over 20,000 units to date. Almost exactly a year after the start of production in December 2016, GM is now comfortably selling and delivering over 2,000 Bolt EVs per month in the US.

The automaker has beaten sales record every month for the past 8 months now with its first built from the ground up all-electric vehicle. For its latest record, the company delivered exactly 2,987 units in the US in November. Here’s the progression over the last year – showing some steady improvements:

It looks like Chevy Bolt EVs are maturing the US market now that the electric vehicle is ‘officially available’ in every state. While the vehicle is officially available everywhere, inventory is not exactly well-distributed and it can still be difficult to find the car in several markets.

Dealers in California had more than decent inventories with the best prices, but we have also heard great deals in other markets recently, like leases for less than $200 per month in Massachusetts. You can always check with your local dealers for inventory and see if you can find a deal. The Bolt EV now seems to be doing just fine in the US – or at least according to GM’s own goal of about 30,000 units per year, but things are more complicated in other markets. In Europe, the Bolt EV is sold under Opel as the Ampera E, and has seen its price increase by $5,500, which Opel blamed on GM.

Some European markets, especially Norway, have expressed a lot of interest for the vehicle, but GM has been limiting the supply to Opel since it sold the company to the PSA Group, which is now requesting a refund from GM after reportedly discovering the full extent of its CO2 emissions challenges. In conclusion, if you want a Bolt EV in Europe, I wouldn’t hold your breath, but if you are in the US, try to find a deal and have fun. Time might be a factor though since the $7,500 federal tax credit for electric vehicles is still at risk, which could affect Chevy’s Bolt EV sales

 

[wdolson]

I do think the uncertainty about the future of the EV incentive is driving some people to pull the trigger early on a Bolt.

 

[Evoforce]

My son just bought a Bolt yesterday. Motivating factors:

1. The 2012 Nissan Leaf he traded was going to have too much battery degradation just past warranty and a new battery was going to cost over $6,000.

2. He seemed to get more on his Leaf trade-in than he had paid for the car.

3. The new 2018 Leaf has only 150 mile battery (probably 115 freeway miles).

4. The 2018 Leaf still has no thermal management so it will still have rapid battery degradation.

5. The tax incentive may be gone shortly.

6. The Bolt has longer range (238 mi) than everyone but Tesla. However, Bolt charging infrastructure needs to greatly catch up.

7. The car is available now. However, extremely few are in stock. It appears to be a compliance car and is also not advertised or well stocked.

8. The size was adequate for him but is however smaller than Leaf or Tesla.

9. It looks better (live) than in photos, however not as good as Tesla.

10. Better price than Tesla.

Again, I completely agree with others, that Chevy, so far, has made this as a compliance car.