Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[flathillll]

Those POS cells are nothing like what GM is putting in their Bolt with warranty and all the implied legal liability.

Those POS cells have almost random performance characteristics not anywhere near their nominal performance characteristics.

Just because China can sell a POS car for $8k does not make it a Tesla Model S or even a Chevy Malibu.

for sure. but the point is everybody has been wrong about cell cost trends. the DOE predicted last year a 200 dollar floor that we would not hit until 2020. the real floor is somewhere around 40/kwh now that we can charge to 5V with high cycle life. the missing element was electrolyte stable at 5V

lucky the USA military and a small company in san diego solved the problem by simply trying every possible combination (biotech tech)

atm machine

 

[mknox]

GM should make their own cells and own motor and own inverter and most critically the

they outsourced their future

How do you know GM won't make their own cells eventually? My Model S had so much "foreign content" (the Japaneses cells) that it didn't qualify under NAFTA and I had to pay import duty on the car. The Gigafactory will address that, and maybe GM will follow a similar path. It will be interesting to see if the Bolt is subject to import duty in Canada like the Model S currently is when it becomes available for sale. Then we'll see how much "foreign content" it has.

 

[flathillll]

How do you know GM won't make their own cells eventually? My Model S had so much "foreign content" (the Japaneses cells) that it didn't qualify under NAFTA and I had to pay import duty on the car. The Gigafactory will address that, and maybe GM will follow a similar path. It will be interesting to see if the Bolt is subject to import duty in Canada like the Model S currently is when it becomes available for sale. Then we'll see how much "foreign content" it has.

GM already gave up. Pretty sad situation. It is the LG Bolt, not the GM Bolt

LG supplied an array of new components and systems for the Chevrolet Bolt EV, including:

• Electric Drive Motor
• Power Inverter Module (converts DC power to AC for the drive unit)
• On Board Charger
• Electric Climate Control System Compressor
• Battery Cells and Pack
• High Power Distribution Module (manages the flow of high voltage to various components)
• Battery Heater
• Accessory Power Module (maintains low-voltage power delivery to accessories)
• Power Line Communication Module (manages communication between vehicle and a DC charging station)
• Instrument Cluster
• Infotainment System

----
More American-made than the F150?
Today, Tesla claims that its electric sedan has about 55% American- and Canadian-made content. But the vehicle is about to get an American-made boost.

MODEL S. IMAGE SOURCE: TESLA MOTORS.
After the Gigafactory is built, and thanks to Tesla's proposed efforts to source Gigafactory materials from the U.S., about 90% of Model S content could come from the U.S -- a figure that would beat out any other vehicle sold in the Land of the Free.
Fortunately, for both consumers and Tesla investors, Tesla's American-made cars will be available at more affordable prices by then. In conjunction with the Gigafactory, Tesla is planning to bring to market a fully electric vehicle with a starting price around $35,000. This more-affordable Tesla will put the automaker in a whole different ballgame.

 

[RobStark]

for sure. but the point is everybody has been wrong about cell cost trends. the DOE predicted last year a 200 dollar floor that we would not hit until 2020. the real floor is somewhere around 40/kwh now that we can charge to 5V with high cycle life. the missing element was electrolyte stable at 5V

If prices were below $150 and everybody knew it LG Chem would not have had choice words for revealing GM is getting $145 now and for the next two years I believe.

I can' t currently find their chart for their cell cost roadmap.

If prices were falling through the floor like that then GM would not commit to two years at $145.

 

[tga]

GM already gave up. Pretty sad situation. It is the LG Bolt, not the GM Bolt

Give your turntable a nudge. Your needle is stuck in the same groove of that broken record...

- - - Updated - - -

bolt is a piece of junk and no threat to Tesla

Really? You've seen, touched, smelled, and driven the production model? Please, give us all the details...

 

[Cosmacelf]

Guys, check out this Bolt demo video by GM. It has a number of things which are better than the Model S. Will the Model 3 have a configurable touchscreen, paddle regen, regen to full stop, wifi hotspot, auto park 'gear', camera based rear view wide angle 'mirror', top view parking, service centers everywhere, ability to have a car fixed in a day rather than a 2 week wait, etc?

Chevrolet Bolt Chief Engineer Takes Us Inside GMs 200-Mile Electric Car - Video - Inside EVs

Yeah, I know, lack of fast charge network, but don't kid yourself, Tesla is behind of a huge number of features than Mr. And Mrs. Middle American want. And to them, GM is a safer choice than Tesla.

 

[scottf200]

I'm thrilled about the Bolt. There is a huge segment of the population that thinks of Tesla as some 'left wing hippie tree hugging subsidy taking' electric vehicle company. But GM? They LOVE GM. Merica. This is awesome. People who scoffed at EVs will start to take them seriously and pay attention. A whole new group of people will be cross-shopping against Tesla Model 3s, thanks to GM and Volt. Good for the planet. We all win.

A little competition never hurt anyone. Yay.

nope Korea wins. GM will go bankrupt again and Korea or China will buy it

if you cant tell I hate GM with a passion ever since they sold Ovonics to Chevron

Mercantilism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they car was almost 100% engineered and designed in Korea (even the body)

LG supplied an array of new components and systems for the Chevrolet Bolt EV, including:

You are such a broken record. Clearly you hate GM for whatever personal reasons but you bring no value to these discussions because of it. Talk about the features and technical side and not your politics. Geez give it a rest. Car companies are about partnerships. Tesla doesn't make everything the put in their cars and certainly didn't when they started! GM partnered and figured out how to get a 200+ mile EV lower end car out *long* before everyone. Give them credit.

 

[flathillll]

You are such a broken record. Clearly you hate GM for whatever personal reasons but you bring no value to these discussions because of it. Talk about the features and technical side and not your politics. Geez give it a rest. Car companies are about partnerships. Tesla doesn't make everything the put in their cars and certainly didn't when they started! GM partnered and figured out how to get a 200+ mile EV lower end car out *long* before everyone. Give them credit.

says the volt owner. your post added nothing of value. I already stated in my post I hate GM and stated the reason! now reread what you just wrote acting like you figured me out

GM did not beat Tesla to market. The vehicle is the LG Bolt marketed by GM. LG beat Tesla to market but the Bolt is still a piece of junk econobox with a shite suspension and no autonomous capability. you proabably think your volt is a great car so our opinions differ and that is OK

 

[ecarfan]

DC charging not only optional, but slow compared to Tesla.
"SAE Combo DC Fast Charge: 90 miles in 30 minutes"

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but fast charging will be optional on the Bolt. I wonder how much they will charge for that option.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/silveradohd/2013.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/Jan/naias/chevy/0111-bolt-du.html

The really sad part of the Bolt story is that GM has outsourced the core technology of the vehicle, the drivetrain and much more the LG. That is not a recipe for long term success. In contrast, Tesla owns their core technology and the firmware that runs the car and the Autopilot systems.

 

[flathillll]

Give your turntable a nudge. Your needle is stuck in the same groove of that broken record...

- - - Updated - - -


Really? You've seen, touched, smelled, and driven the production model? Please, give us all the details...

just spreading the word. most people will buy the bolt thinking they are buying designed and engineered in the USA. I hate GM with a passion. That much is clear.

I have not driven the bolt but I do have pics of the underside. typical POS econobox suspension

 

[scottf200]

says the volt owner. your post added nothing of value. I already stated in my post I hate GM and stated the reason! now reread what you just wrote acting like you figured me out

GM did not beat Tesla to market. The vehicle is the LG Bolt marketed by GM. LG beat Tesla to market but the Bolt is still a piece of junk econobox with a shite suspension and no autonomous capability. you proabably think your volt is a great car so our opinions differ and that is OK

The mass market Tesla car is the 3 and clearly GM and partners will beat them to market with various technical features usable by the common drivers. That why there was non-stop talking about the Bolt in 3 TMC threads today.

My family does own 3 Volts. Have driven many highway miles in the 2016 GenII. Has great features including Lane Assist that puts me back in the lane if you drift. I think GM is using Mobileye as a partner just like Tesla is for this.

*AND* I look forward to my driving my Tesla Sig X (with their partners battery) in the next couple weeks. It was painted last week.

 

[rEVhappy]

Aside from the battery capacity and range, I don't know how the Model 3 and the Bolt are even in the same category. I think the media is having a field day with this 'Haha, GM got there first, boo hoo Tesla.. you lost!' meme. I've read no less than 3 headlines over the past couple of days that use this exact narrative as if it's some huge deal that this big corporation has the resources/funds to pull this off.

Let's get some things straight:
The Bolt is not in production currently and will not be until the end of this year
Bolt's annual sales are projected to be appx. 30k units a year (less than Model S 2016?)
The car will be a loss leader or have paper thin margins for GM for at least a few years

As far as comparing products:
A FWD econobox with cost saving rear suspension vs. a RWD sports sedan with optimal packaging for batteries and motor.
Model 3 interior packaging with frunk and efficient use of space will still make a Bolt seem ancient in comparison
Supercharging network
Tesla's reputation for outstanding service (Go ask people why they buy Lexus et al. if they would rather prefer a traditional GM dealership for service)

Add all this to very similar pricing and advancements in AP in the next couple of years, and I can't even see how this is a comparison.

I'll give credit to GM for doing this, but comparing a Bolt to a Model3 just seems as bad a comparison as comparing a Fit to a 3series. Which would you rather buy for the same price?

 

[flathillll]

finally someone I can agree with

remember the Model 3 has been designed/engineered over 10 year period. the bolt was developed in a year and it shows.

the Model 3 is a labor of love and will make you cry. everything is riding on it. GM lovers can go sell the Bolt on the Volt forum. They are already talking about buying pissing on Tesla stickers for their Bolt. Competition is good but I feel sorry for anyone buying a Bolt

 

[bonnie]

nope Korea wins. GM will go bankrupt again and Korea or China will buy it

if you cant tell I hate GM with a passion ever since they sold Ovonics to Chevron
[snip]

Theory of Abundance. The more electric cars on the road*, the more electric cars on the road.

Not everything is a competition. Sometimes it's a team effort.

*More electric cars means more infrastructure built up making electric transport more attractive to new potential buyers, better educated population meaning more potential new buyers, less FUD meaning more potential new buyers, ... all resulting in a higher likelihood that the next car sold is electric. Bolt is good for Tesla sales. Can't afford a Tesla, we'll buy a Bolt. Next one will be a Tesla.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Guys, check out this Bolt demo video by GM. It has a number of things which are better than the Model S. Will the Model 3 have a configurable touchscreen, paddle regen, regen to full stop, wifi hotspot, auto park 'gear', camera based rear view wide angle 'mirror', top view parking, service centers everywhere, ability to have a car fixed in a day rather than a 2 week wait, etc?

Chevrolet Bolt Chief Engineer Takes Us Inside GMs 200-Mile Electric Car - Video - Inside EVs

Yeah, I know, lack of fast charge network, but don't kid yourself, Tesla is behind of a huge number of features than Mr. And Mrs. Middle American want. And to them, GM is a safer choice than Tesla.

I remember reading an article a while back that said similar things about the ELR vs the Model S. Yet the ELR fell flat on its face. Of course, I don't expect the Bolt to fail like that, but at the same time the comparative sales volume of the 3 and Bolt may end up the same as those two cars.

 

[flathillll]

Theory of Abundance. The more electric cars on the road*, the more electric cars on the road.

Not everything is a competition. Sometimes it's a team effort.

*More electric cars means more infrastructure built up making electric transport more attractive to new potential buyers, better educated population meaning more potential new buyers, less FUD meaning more potential new buyers, ... all resulting in a higher likelihood that the next car sold is electric. Bolt is good for Tesla sales. Can't afford a Tesla, we'll buy a Bolt. Next one will be a Tesla.

yeah I think it is great more electric cars will be made but long term (100+ years) all economies are a zero sum game. synergy is real but human nature is not

our nature is not humane

if you buy GM you are on team Korea. If you buy Tesla you are on team USA

each country is one corporation but each corporation can be more than one country

I am an anarchist but the machine has programmed me to play for the USA

-----

The historic landing, the first time a rocket launched a payload into orbit and then returned safely to Earth, was cheered as a sign that SpaceX, the darling of the commercial space industry, has its momentum back.
"The Falcon has landed," a SpaceX commentator said on the live webcast, as workers at its headquarters went wild, chanting "USA! USA!"

 

[igotzzoom]

Guys, check out this Bolt demo video by GM. It has a number of things which are better than the Model S. Will the Model 3 have a configurable touchscreen, paddle regen, regen to full stop, wifi hotspot, auto park 'gear', camera based rear view wide angle 'mirror', top view parking, service centers everywhere, ability to have a car fixed in a day rather than a 2 week wait, etc?

Chevrolet Bolt Chief Engineer Takes Us Inside GMs 200-Mile Electric Car - Video - Inside EVs

Yeah, I know, lack of fast charge network, but don't kid yourself, Tesla is behind of a huge number of features than Mr. And Mrs. Middle American want. And to them, GM is a safer choice than Tesla.

LOL. And who went bankrupt seven years ago? :smile: My, what short memories we have. Yes, GM has the manufacturing base, and the service and distribution footprint. Don't get me wrong. I like the Bolt, and may even buy one myself. But until we see the Model 3, I think it's a bit premature to declare anyone "superior" or "inferior".

 

[flathillll]

LOL. And who went bankrupt seven years ago? :smile: My, what short memories we have. Yes, GM has the manufacturing base, and the service and distribution footprint. Don't get me wrong. I like the Bolt, and may even buy one myself. But until we see the Model 3, I think it's a bit premature to declare anyone "superior" or "inferior".

I declare Tesla superior to GM

which forum are we on again. Team Tesla FTW

 

[stopcrazypp]

LOL. And who went bankrupt seven years ago? :smile: My, what short memories we have. Yes, GM has the manufacturing base, and the service and distribution footprint. Don't get me wrong. I like the Bolt, and may even buy one myself. But until we see the Model 3, I think it's a bit premature to declare anyone "superior" or "inferior".

Someone else pointed out the biggest problem with the whole dealership comparison. Yes, GM has 3000 dealers. However, how many of those can service the Volt (or more related to the Bolt, the Spark EV)? If you filter by that, the situation may not end up that much better than Tesla.

 

[Grendal]

I mentioned it before. Bolt buyers will be future Model 3 buyers if the Model 3 is as great as we expect it to be. This is good for Tesla. A few will even be Model S and Model X buyers.

GM Bolt = a nice longer range improvement over the Nissan Leaf.

Tesla = S3XY