Coronavirus

[joh01652]

Hope you jump shipped today. Looks like that Vaccine is not as what it's cracked up to be. Storage requirement is -80c! This is not a scalable solution.

I'm a traveling clinical laboratory scientist, -80C freezers are super common at any normal hospital/medical center. Believe me, in the U.S., -80C freezers are easy to come by and plentiful. Every accredited hospital has them, and easy to order if more storage capacity is required.

Now Africa, that might be another story...

 

[Norbert]

The 7 day average of deaths reached exactly 1000/day today.
An increase of about 35% since the plateau before the policy change.

United States Coronavirus: 10,421,956 Cases and 244,448 Deaths - Worldometer

 

[Singuy]

I'm a traveling clinical laboratory scientist, -80C freezers are super common at any normal hospital/medical center. Believe me, in the U.S., -80C freezers are easy to come by and plentiful. Every accredited hospital has them, and easy to order if more storage capacity is required.

Now Africa, that might be another story...

Oh man if we rely on hospitals to distribute the vaccine to pt then we will be done after 20 years. Common place to get vaccines will be pharmacies and primary care facilities which are not equip with -80c freezers. And we know that FDA/Joint Commission are sticklers about this considering we have to do temperature logs in our hospital for all of our fridges daily so some cooler with some dry ice in it will not fly. Also we do not have a -80c freezer in our pharmacy of 800 bed hospital (might be elsewhere in the building).

 

[30seconds]

Very few, basically zero, approved therapeutics use -80 shipping and storage. It is possible to distribute via the usual commercial mechanisms however given the expected volume needed for a vaccine like this and the lack of existing commercial distribution infrastructure at -80c I expect this to be a disaster.

 

[OrthoSurg]

Oh man if we rely on hospitals to distribute the vaccine to pt then we will be done after 20 years. Common place to get vaccines will be pharmacies and primary care facilities which are not equip with -80c freezers. And we know that FDA/Joint Commission are sticklers about this considering we have to do temperature logs in our hospital for all of our fridges daily so some cooler with some dry ice in it will not fly. Also we do not have a -80c freezer in our pharmacy of 800 bed hospital (might be elsewhere in the building).

Or -80 freezer for our hospital is already full of cadaver grafts for surgeries. To make space for vaccine will need a lot more freezers and that will have to be production ramped like the ventilators originally

 

[davepsilon]

Pfizer vaccine requires two doses and shipment and storage using dry ice (or ultra cold refrigerator). So still room for single dose, more temperature stable options. But twenty million Pfizer doses planned by year end, assuming emergency auth is granted later this month, so that’s more than nothing!

They’ll be some spoilage. And there will be some missed second doses due to logistical issues. If this happens to your dose it will be a personal hardship. But even if this is the only vaccine that makes it past the post, we can work with this.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

People forget, we don't need 330M doses in the US. Just everyone over 55, the sickliest 5% 35-54, and the .5% with a serious underlying condition younger than 35.

60M give or take? How many freezers could that possibly be? Put em on a few dozen Tesla semis with liquid nit

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

-80C is the storage temperature. How long after removing the vaccine from storage is it still viable for? If it's a few hours, isn't all this freezer discussion much ado about nothing?

 

[heltok]

People forget, we don't need 330M doses in the US. Just everyone over 55, the sickliest 5% 35-54, and the .5% with a serious underlying condition younger than 35.

60M give or take? How many freezers could that possibly be? Put em on a few dozen Tesla semis with liquid nit

We don’t need to give people with anti bodies the vaccine. Given that 0.07% of all Americans have died of the virus and the virus kills ~0.6% I think we can assume that ~10% of Americans already have antibodies.

Then imo(and I know doctors and politicians disagree) we should prioritize to give the virus to anyone likely to get infected/infect others first to stop the spread of the virus, that will probably save more lives than giving it to risk groups. So imo give the vaccine to all nurses, police, teachers, restaurant staff etc who interact with a lot of people on a daily basis. But I guess this will not happen in our political metagame...

 

[wdolson]

We don’t need to give people with anti bodies the vaccine. Given that 0.07% of all Americans have died of the virus and the virus kills ~0.6% I think we can assume that ~10% of Americans already have antibodies.

Then imo(and I know doctors and politicians disagree) we should prioritize to give the virus to anyone likely to get infected/infect others first to stop the spread of the virus, that will probably save more lives than giving it to risk groups. So imo give the vaccine to all nurses, police, teachers, restaurant staff etc who interact with a lot of people on a daily basis. But I guess this will not happen in our political metagame...

We need a commercially available t-cell test, but that might be too complicated and/or expensive to scale up from research use. Because what the current antibody test tests for is the B-cell immunity that fades after a few months, people who had it this summer probably would test negative for the antibody test now.

I do think that the first to get the vaccine will likely be front line medical workers. They have the most potential exposure. Second priority should be anyone who works with the elderly and those who have high risk underlying condition.

 

[Norbert]

It's not enough to give it to those who we know are at high risk of dying, even if that is a good starting point following health care workers and other highly exposed people.

Many more are at risk of getting hospitalized or sick in a bad way that may have a lasting effect. Those we don't know easily who they are. So I think we need enough to get R_t distinctly below 1.0. As always.

 

[zecar]

Or -80 freezer for our hospital is already full of cadaver grafts for surgeries. To make space for vaccine will need a lot more freezers and that will have to be production ramped like the ventilators originally

Shipping is overnight in already designed containers that include GPS and temp monitoring. The shipping infrastructure has been in place for thirty years.

I think organizing vaccine recipients in the U.S. may be more challenging than logistics.

 

[NikolaACDC]

It's not enough to give it to those who we know are at high risk of dying, even if that is a good starting point following health care workers and other highly exposed people.

Many more are at risk of getting hospitalized or sick in a bad way that may have a lasting effect. Those we don't know easily who they are. So I think we need enough to get R_t distinctly below 1.0. As always.

Or, failing that, you'll just send infected people back to work at hospitals
With North Dakota hospitals at 100% capacity, Burgum announces COVID-positive nurses can stay at work | Grand Forks Herald

"In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units."
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Guess most healthcare workers care too much to just pack up and leave.
I would if I'd be surrounded by government and people that do everything possible to get me infected.

 

[madodel]

Or, failing that, you'll just send infected people back to work at hospitals
With North Dakota hospitals at 100% capacity, Burgum announces COVID-positive nurses can stay at work | Grand Forks Herald

"In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units."
---------------------------------
Guess most healthcare workers care too much to just pack up and leave.
I would if I'd be surrounded by government and people that do everything possible to get me infected.

Amazing how the herd immunity folks keep coming up with ways to inoculate people. Maybe the goal here is to return ND to the bison and the moose.

 

[Norbert]

Or, failing that, you'll just send infected people back to work at hospitals
With North Dakota hospitals at 100% capacity, Burgum announces COVID-positive nurses can stay at work | Grand Forks Herald

"In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units."
---------------------------------
Guess most healthcare workers care too much to just pack up and leave.
I would if I'd be surrounded by government and people that do everything possible to get me infected.

Next thing is he allows dead people to work again... (sorry maybe too much TV...)

 

[OrthoSurg]

Next thing is he allows dead people to work again... (sorry maybe too much TV...)

Plot twist, the walking dead come back when dead from COVID19?

 

[Doggydogworld]

Believe me, in the U.S., -80C freezers are easy to come by and plentiful. Every accredited hospital has them, and easy to order if more storage capacity is required.

It was easy to order N95s at one point, too.

Very few, basically zero, approved therapeutics use -80 shipping and storage. It is possible to distribute via the usual commercial mechanisms however given the expected volume needed for a vaccine like this and the lack of existing commercial distribution infrastructure at -80c I expect this to be a disaster.

60 Minutes just aired a pretty good story about General Gus Perna and the distribution plan. The "last mile" will be the problem, I suspect.

 

[Norbert]

Plot twist, the walking dead come back when dead from COVID19?

Of course.

 

[Wenche]

View attachment 606819 Link to Pfizer article about the vaccine. What are the thoughts from the experts here? Can we trust the vaccine?
Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study | Pfizer

Thank you for all the informative responses. I would appreciate professional response to get a better understanding of the possibility’s and the limitations of this vaccine and others.
However, I would prefer joking kept out of this tread. There are many professionals within medical, physical, and epidemic scientists here, as well. Let them speak, and spare your jokes for an other tread. We need to save lives. Thank you.

 

[JRP3]

Gallows humor has a long tradition and makes difficult situations more bearable.