Coronavirus

[X Fan]

To me it is not unreasonable if Tesla waits for orders (actual orders from authorities to produce, or orders for product from some customer) before committing to retool and start manufacture. USA has (on pergament) religious freedom, of course, so prayers are not forbidden (only placebo).

Edited: And same goes for SpaceX, of course.

Medtronic press release today stating they are adding a their shift to their Ireland plant and expect to be able to double their product of respirators....don't know numbers or timing though.

btw: with respect to Tesla building, I wonder if they would need the Federal Government bureaucracy to approve their site, process, etc?

Edit: already answered in page before...defense act should speed up process

Medtronic to more than double ventilator manufacturing capacity

 

[bkp_duke]

Regarding medical device manufacturing for ventilators, there are production houses that specialize in medical device manufacturing. Medical device manufacturing requires specific certifications and quality standards. Big medical houses invent the device and market it but may sub out a lot of manufacturing work to these specialists.

The medical device subcontractors have approved suppliers, materials and sources that are already on an audit plan. The quality systems are in place and compliant and substantial. CE certification and compliance helps greatly.

There is good reason for these requirements. First do no harm.

An example would be:

Medical | Mack Molding – Injection Molding, Large Part Molding, Contract Manufacturing, Medical Device Manufacturing, Sheet Metal Fabrication and Rapid Prototyping

(not affiliated in any way but used Mack at one time)

I would guess that expanding to 24/7 manufacturing and adding production lines to these existing plants would be BY FAR most efficient and quick vs trying to stand up non-medical device manufacturers.

As for updating designs to accelerate manufacturing then SpaceX and Tesla could help. They might be able to pick up some work to free resources that can be quickly applied to making ventilators.

My 2 cents only.

I'm absolutely certain that should Elon decide to enter this industry he could sell vents for 1/4 or less their current price. The margins in medical devices are nucking futs. The financials of these companies only tell 1/2 the story. They keep those profit margins from looking crazy by giving their sales staff some seriously bonkers commissions.

Hell, knowing Elon, he would make a new vent design that could run without being plugged in for 24h.

 

[bkp_duke]

Medtronic press release today stating they are adding a their shift to their Ireland plant and expect to be able to double their product of respirators....don't know numbers or timing though.

btw: with respect to Tesla building, I wonder if they would need the Federal Government bureaucracy to approve their site, process, etc?

Defense Production Act:
Defense Production Act - Wikipedia
"The first authorizes the President to require businesses to sign contracts or fulfill orders deemed necessary for national defense. The second authorizes the President to establish mechanisms (such as regulations, orders or agencies) to allocate materials, services and facilities to promote national defense. The third section authorizes the President to control the civilian economy so that scarce and/or critical materials necessary to the national defense effort are available for defense needs."

Pretty sure that means that it allows bypassing of current regulations when the act is invoked.

 

[sparcs]

The assumption is that a ventilator is a complicated piece of machinery. I know you probably don't have personal experience with one, but I do. They are basically a servo air pump. The hardest part is not making the air pumps. It's the electronics. Someone like Tesla would need to partner with a company that prints circuit boards (perhaps a raspberry Pi could be programmed to do things properly - just a thought).

They really are stupid simple machines compared to a Tesla.

definitely don't have experience. I just don't understand why the feds told all these governors to figure out a solution for themselves. Especially if it was so easy. Mayors begging in tweets.

Is the time frame the problem? They need tens of thousands today versus in a month?

 

[bkp_duke]

definitely don't have experience. I just don't understand why the feds told all these governors to figure out a solution for themselves. Especially if it was so easy. Mayors begging in tweets.

Is the time frame the problem? They need tens of thousands today versus in a month?

Yes, the time-frame is going to be the issue. And I don't have a crystal ball, but if social distancing was implemented too late and we see lots of people banging down the doors of the hospitals, it's too late. By the time someone presents to a hospital for care they are usually in respiratory distress or a day away from it. They need a vent then, and it will be too late to deal with the delay of ramping up production and factoring in shipping time.

 

[Cosmacelf]

If that is truly the case, then in our models of healthcare for this pandemic, we should not model in a very large increase in vent capacity. We're stuck with what we have, what's in storage that can be used/repaired, and what the current manufacturers can get out quickly.

He said new ventilator production facility, not increasing capacity in an existing vent manufacturer. I'm telling you, existing ventilator manufacturers are already increasing production and have been for a while and have been doing great business selling them.

 

[bkp_duke]

He said new ventilator production facility, not increasing capacity in an existing vent manufacturer. I'm telling you, existing ventilator manufacturers are already increasing production and have been for a while and have been doing great business selling them.

We'll see how things pan out. I don't think they will be able to meet the avalanche of demand we are about to see.

 

[lascavarian]

Hell, knowing Elon, he would make a new vent design that could run without being plugged in for 24h.

What might be interesting would be a bedside simple remote control head being fed/supplied from a central highly reliable distribution point. Early in the evolution of dialysis this approach was used for a time. This could work well for tents and emergency situations where easy scalability could be a benefit and a temporary situation of "plumbing" would be acceptable.

I am not experienced with ventilators so maybe wouldn't work.

 

[X Fan]

Observation via the Guardian on a success story from Italy.....sadly, unless there is a quick at home test available in a quantity in the billions I don't think it can be implemented globally.

Scientists say mass tests in Italian town have halted Covid-19 there

 

[bkp_duke]

What might be interesting would be a bedside simple remote control head being fed/supplied from a central highly reliable distribution point. Early in the evolution of dialysis this approach was used for a time. This could work well for tents and emergency situations where easy scalability could be a benefit and a temporary situation of "plumbing" would be acceptable.

I am not experienced with ventilators so maybe wouldn't work.

Vents need to have settings customized for each user. Specifically lung volume and derivatives of that. I do not believe that a centralized solution would be feasable.

 

[Nocturnal]

There needs to be a congressional investigation into the decision to not use the WHO tests. That decision reeks of somebody getting a kick back or trying to do some insider trading. (perhaps Kushner's brother who owns a testing co). The lack of testing is costing lives and countless billions in damage to the economy.

FWIW, I have some mild symptoms today that could be representative of Covid-19. Fever, chest tightness, some coughing. I was told to stay home and hydrate rather than get tested.

 

[X Fan]

There needs to be a congressional investigation into the decision to not use the WHO tests. That decision reeks of somebody getting a kick back or trying to do some insider trading. (perhaps Kushner's brother who owns a testing co). The lack of testing is costing lives and countless billions in damage to the economy.

FWIW, I have some mild symptoms today that could be representative of Covid-19. Fever, chest tightness, some coughing. I was told to stay home and hydrate rather than get tested.

This is a national crisis....I don't think kick backs apply here (although clearly in the UK and US there were folks that took advantage of the war to profit).

btw: stay well.....I'm on day 5 of my home isolation....my Dr. gave same advice. Your sick, isolate and if symptoms get bad, go straight to the hospital. Treatment at home is usual virus stuff.

 

[Nocturnal]

This is a national crisis....I don't think kick backs apply here (although clearly in the UK and US there were folks that took advantage of the war to profit).

btw: stay well.....I'm on day 5 of my home isolation....my Dr. gave same advice. Your sick, isolate and if symptoms get bad, go straight to the hospital. Treatment at home is usual virus stuff.

Just seems something that the Trump admin would do. "Hey, don't use that test. My company has one we can use. Buy some stock and we can all make money and nobody will know." Best case it was incompetence.

 

[jerry33]

I have seen reference from some of you in this thread regarding UV-C lights as being an effective sanitizer. I consider this an appropriate topic for this thread and would like to encourage it - whether the premise be correct or incorrect. (and if it is correct and the subtopic has legs, I may spin it out as a separate thread).

My overnight thoughts are the following:

• build a light-proof box large enough to handle the single largest item I consider it likely to come to our household.
  • 1m x 1m x 1.5m is what I have in mind.

Seems a might small for the X.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Trump is singing the praises of Chloroquine as a possible effective therapy in his press conference going on right now.

 

[NicoV]

From todays news in The Netherlands: “Sinds de laatste update van het RIVM, gisteren, zijn 409 mensen positief getest op het coronavirus. Daarmee komt het totaal aantal positief geteste mensen op 2460, zegt het instituut. Onder hen zijn 594 mensen die werken in de zorg.”
2460 confirmed cases, but 594 of them are people working in healthcare. That’s a sobering statistic.

 

[X Fan]

Just seems something that the Trump admin would do. "Hey, don't use that test. My company has one we can use. Buy some stock and we can all make money and nobody will know." Best case it was incompetence.

Please don't let your political cynicism of the current administration cloud the issue.

FWIW: the research arms of hospital groups and private industry have come through with much better testing protocols (I mentioned in an earlier post that the research arms of UNC & Cleveland Clinic created quicker tests/results...less than 4 hours. Kushner is nowhere to be found on that). I also understand the Feds are researching how to make it even faster and less invasive (the test itself is pretty awful...in your nose and down to your throat which makes process slow). Hopefully, they will find the answer and get it manufactured in the appropriate quantities.

btw: I served in the Marine Corps in the mid 70's and learned early on that people from disparate locations and thoughts can be molded into a high functioning team (we had men from the Northeast, Midwest, South and of many nationalities/backgrounds).

More importantly, we knew to drop the attitudes & respect each other. Further, grumbling/noise should be subdued in times of crisis.

Thus, over the decades there have been some Administrations that I felt were more competent or mirrored my value systems better but in every case I respected the office and believed that the people's will had been delivered properly.

Just to emphasize: right now we all need to stick together and when this crisis passes, extensive examination of what went wrong and right should occur (including our election in November).

Wishing you a speedy recovery (and isolated from others).

 

[bkp_duke]

Trump is singing the praises of Chloroquine as a possible effective therapy in his press conference going on right now.

Given his track record, should we just mark this one off the list of candidates?

just kidding

 

[Nocturnal]

More importantly, we knew to drop the attitudes & respect each other. Further, grumbling/noise should be subdued in times of crisis.

*after we get through this

 

[bkp_duke]

*after we get through this

For whatever you have, get better soon.