Coronavirus

[Cherry Wine]

Careful this type of logical thinking will get you publicly shamed.

I do agree to an extent but would add some points. Most office jobs who can work from home without issue should still do so. If no reason to go to office then don't go.

Education and putting in steps to minimize the risk is key (along with more testing).

But yea, completely killing the global economy is not a good idea. We are going to deal with waves of unemployment.

South Korea is the model to which we should look. Widespread testing in conjunction with effective contact tracing and isolation of infected or at-risk individuals. We should be using a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. That presumes the availability of tests, however.

 

[Thekiwi]

This chart tells an amazing story.

It seems like we are approaching the response completely wrong. We are unemploying 100’s of millions worldwide, wrecking the travel, entertainment, restaurant, sports industries, which will have ripple effects through real estate, aircraft companies, restaurant supply chains, banks...

And we are telling many people who are at very low risk they cannot work, because they may infect someone who is at great risk. It seems a far, far better approach to educate the people who have the conditions below, (and provide unemployment to those high risk people if they currently work), and then let them choose whether to self isolate or not.

It seems completely backwards to tell millennials and all other low risk individuals, they can not work, go out... because they may infect a high risk person who has chosen to not self isolate. It’s like saying we’re willing to destroy the economy and trigger a horrible recession, to preserve grandmother’s right to still go out, if she chooses. Grandmothers and Grandfathers and others with the conditions below, should be able to make the choice if they want to risk it or not, and family and society should focus on helping them if they choose not to risk it, by delivery services, unemployment...

It just seems so backwards to unemploy the healthiest and trigger a global massive recession if not depression, prolong the pain..., just so the at-risk (who are a much smaller percentage), can still socialize.

View attachment 523482

You are under the incorrect assumption that no one in your cited "risk groups" is in danger of anything. To get you up to speed - even the youngest & fittest amongst us can suffer serious life long ill effects from contracting the virus - the most obvious being a reduction in lung capacity that will never return, leading to respiratory issues for the rest of their lives and shorter average life expectancy. And of course there are deaths in every age group - so the "low risk" groups you mentioned are still facing the risk of death if they contract Covid-19. Hospitals around the world have significant amounts of young people on ventilators, and any shortage of health care from even more young people being admitted will lead to more of them dying.

Your plan would also ensure the virus remains in circulation much longer, increasing the odds of infection amongst the risk groups.

 

[Singuy]

Central FL checking in.

ED is very slow, normally by now we would have 60-80 pts in the ED but now it's in the mid 20s. I guess people staying at home really reduced them from doing stupid things.

No Covid R/O pts as of now in the ED. 5 r/o in the hospital, 0 confirmed.

 

[renim]

Iranian health ministry spokesman Kianush Jahanpur said the outbreak was killing at least six people an hour, reports the Independent.
"Based on our information, every 10 minutes one person dies from the coronavirus and some 50 people become infected with the virus every hour in Iran," he tweeted.

Coronavirus kills one Iranian every 10 minutes

 

[Cherry Wine]

Central FL checking in.

ED is very slow, normally by now we would have 60-80 pts in the ED but now it's in the mid 20s. I guess people staying at home really reduced them from doing stupid things.

No Covid R/O pts as of now in the ED. 5 r/o in the hospital, 0 confirmed.

R/O?

 

[Yuri_G]

Italy, Very bad Daily increment of positives...

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

View attachment 523474

That graph seems to contradict this site, which says over 5k positive cases in Italy today.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 242,017 Cases and 9,991 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

 

[Causalien]

You are under the incorrect assumption that no one in your cited "risk groups" is in danger of anything. To get you up to speed - even the youngest & fittest amongst us can suffer serious life long ill effects from contracting the virus - the most obvious being a reduction in lung capacity that will never return, leading to respiratory issues for the rest of their lives and shorter average life expectancy. And of course there are deaths in every age group - so the "low risk" groups you mentioned are still facing the risk of death if they contract Covid-19. Hospitals around the world have significant amounts of young people on ventilators, and any shortage of health care from even more young people being admitted will lead to more of them dying.

Your plan would also ensure the virus remains in circulation much longer, increasing the odds of infection amongst the risk groups.

This is one fact that has been ignored. The lung damage.

So this virus will most likely come back in a 2nd wave and if it mutated enough for you to catch it again, that's 2 lung damage in 1 year. Which means the next pneumonia is probably a very severe event. This is why, if you have the mans and considers health your priority, stay out of public area. However, if you are young healthy and do not consider professional sport as your future, then sure, brave the disease, recover and use this chance to advance your position in society... IF you are willing.

 

[bkp_duke]

Tell her to keep trying. Same thing happened with my wife last week (and she had recent international travel). She decided to go to another testing location and they did test her. Results are pending (although I'm reasonably certain she has Adenovirus).

Following up on this. After 5 days, my wife's PCR resulted from a private lab (that's way too long, but I'll shelve that discussion for now). She is SARS-CoV-2 negative.

Glad to see my clinical stills are still sharp enough to pick out adenovirus on presentation.



I was actually hoping just a little bit that we were all positive, so we would have "been through that" and have immunity. Oh well, back to sheltering in place.

 

[X Fan]

Latest Collier County, FL stats. Positives are still mostly travel related (and for the younger ones to have been been tested, I presume they were pretty sick):

• 30-year-old woman, traveled to Spain
• 66-year-old man, traveled to France, Italy, Spain
• 33-year-old man, traveled to Spain
• 26-year-old man, traveled to France, Italy, Spain
• 47-year-old man, traveled to France, Italy, Spain
• 82-year-old man, no travel
• 31-year-old woman, traveled to Egypt
• 59-year-old man, traveled to Japan
• 77-year-old man, no travel – no contact
• 49-year-old woman, no travel – no contact
• 76-year-old man, traveled to NY – contact with known case
• 28-year-old man, traveled to Italy
• 73-year-old man, traveled to Egypt
• 68-year-old woman, traveled to Egypt
• 64-year-old woman, traveled to Egypt
• 64-year-old man, traveled to FL/HI – non-FL resident
• 79-year-old woman, traveled to CT – non-FL resident

 

[EVNow]

South Korea is the model to which we should look. Widespread testing in conjunction with effective contact tracing and isolation of infected or at-risk individuals. We should be using a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. That presumes the availability of tests, however.

I think each country is unique. S Korea had the benefit of the young church that was the super-spreader. Made it somewhat easier to contact trace (after initial problems) and low % of serious cases. They also had the benefit of having experienced SARS.

Infact the experience of France, Spain, Italy with high fatality and Germany with low fatality shows each country would be different.

I think if US had prepared we could have done strict quarantine of all international travelers with symptoms and contact tracing. BTW, the first WA patient who came in mid-Jan (before the traveler restrictions in early Feb) - was quarantined, 60 contacts traced etc. Yet, the virus got out and we now have 1,000 confirmed cases in WA.

 

[kbM3]

You are under the incorrect assumption that no one in your cited "risk groups" is in danger of anything. To get you up to speed - even the youngest & fittest amongst us can suffer serious life long ill effects from contracting the virus - the most obvious being a reduction in lung capacity that will never return, leading to respiratory issues for the rest of their lives and shorter average life expectancy. And of course there are deaths in every age group - so the "low risk" groups you mentioned are still facing the risk of death if they contract Covid-19. Hospitals around the world have significant amounts of young people on ventilators, and any shortage of health care from even more young people being admitted will lead to more of them dying.

Your plan would also ensure the virus remains in circulation much longer, increasing the odds of infection amongst the risk groups.

If hospitalizations are too high and/or serious long term lung damage risks, that needs to be put out as education as well. It depends on the odds. If it is only 2X-3X as bad as the flu, then I’m sure most would readily accept the risk. Put yourself in the shoes of a server at a restaurant. You could now be missing rent payments utility payments, credit card payments. With restaurants going out of business, you may have a far harder time going forward. I know government can help up to a point, but none of us has a handle on the ripple effects and the likely mass unemployment to follow.

‘I have not heard any experts say that our current approach will shorten the circulation. Do you have any links for this assertion that you are making? I have only heard them speak of flattening the curve, and predictions of anywhere from 30%-70% infections long term.

 

[Nocturnal]

Private company claims they have created a home test kit:
Home diagnostics startup Everlywell is launching an at-home coronavirus test sample kit – TechCrunch

They are going to make so much F-in money.

 

[Singuy]

R/O?

R/O means rule out. Suspected but not confirmed.

 

[Sanny]

You are under the incorrect assumption that no one in your cited "risk groups" is in danger of anything. To get you up to speed - even the youngest & fittest amongst us can suffer serious life long ill effects from contracting the virus - the most obvious being a reduction in lung capacity that will never return, leading to respiratory issues for the rest of their lives and shorter average life expectancy. And of course there are deaths in every age group - so the "low risk" groups you mentioned are still facing the risk of death if they contract Covid-19. Hospitals around the world have significant amounts of young people on ventilators, and any shortage of health care from even more young people being admitted will lead to more of them dying.

Your plan would also ensure the virus remains in circulation much longer, increasing the odds of infection amongst the risk groups.

It sounds like aside from c19 we are immortals and the life is a walk in the park.
It is comfortable and easy to discuss "millenials going to the bar vs a life of a senior person".
Let's discuss another (very real) situation: an infant with a hearing loss can not get a CI surgery
because all non essential operations are paused for indefinite time. Let's assume there is a probability of parents losing jobs and health benefits in the meantime that would delay the operation even much further. It is affecting the trajectory of life for this kid. How many additional months/years of life of another person does it cost?

 

[Thekiwi]

If hospitalizations are too high and/or serious long term lung damage risks, that needs to be put out as education as well. It depends on the odds. If it is only 2X-3X as bad as the flu, then I’m sure most would readily accept the risk. Put yourself in the shoes of a server at a restaurant. You could now be missing rent payments utility payments, credit card payments. With restaurants going out of business, you may have a far harder time going forward. I know government can help up to a point, but none of us has a handle on the ripple effects and the likely mass unemployment to follow.

‘I have not heard any experts say that our current approach will shorten the circulation. Do you have any links for this assertion that you are making? I have only heard them speak of flattening the curve, and predictions of anywhere from 30%-70% infections long term.

I do feel sorry for the people in the situation you describe. It it more a US problem in that aspect I suppose - here in New Zealand that restaurant server gets unlimited time on an unemployment benefit along with unlimited free health care.

 

[Thekiwi]

It sounds like aside from c19 we are immortals and the life is a walk in the park.
It is comfortable and easy to discuss "millenials going to the bar vs a life of a senior person".
Let's discuss another (very real) situation: an infant with a hearing loss can not get a CI surgery
because all non essential operations are paused for indefinite time. Let's assume there is a probability of parents losing jobs and health benefits in the meantime that would delay the operation even much further. It is affecting the trajectory of life for this kid. How many additional months/years of life of another person does it cost?

eh? surgeries are being delayed solely to cope with demand of Covid-19 patients. relaxing self distancing rules for "low risk" groups would simply add more Covid-19 cases which would delay non-covid19 surgeries even further. Your hypothetical hearing impaired infant is worse off under your plan.

 

[AudubonB]

As earlier suggested, all 'UV as Sanitizer" posts now have their own thread. Link here: (Coronavirus) On UV Sanitization

 

[linux-works]

[rant]
was driving today - mission was to pick up face masks from employer (they were handing them out as you drove by our building; very efficient in-car pickup), and on the way home I got radar'd from a cop sitting on his motorcycle, looking for speeders.

do they have NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH THEIR TIME than to endanger peoples' lives by having to interact with them? I mean, come on - speeding is largely seen as revenue enhancement (its not about safety; never really was).

for one thing, the cop is risking his health. but worse, citizens are being exposed to someone that probably gets near many more people than anyone should, in this situation.

if a cop pulled you over for speeding - are you within your rights to NOT roll down your window? lets compare: you could risk your very life just to receive a friggin traffic ticket?

I know - the roads are mostly empty and so people are driving faster. SO WHAT! we have bigger fish to fry than 'business as usual'.
[/rant]

does this kind of behavior piss anyone else, off?

I'm not sure what I'd do if I was stopped. if the cop was wearing a mask that would be one thing, but when I passed him by, he was not wearing one and I doubt he'd come to the car wearing one.

wonder how the law would view such a situation?

 

[EVNow]

I'm not sure what I'd do if I was stopped. if the cop was wearing a mask that would be one thing, but when I passed him by, he was not wearing one and I doubt he'd come to the car wearing one.

Roll down the window and start coughing. Tell him you wish you could get tested.

 

[bkp_duke]

[rant]
was driving today - mission was to pick up face masks from employer (they were handing them out as you drove by our building; very efficient in-car pickup), and on the way home I got radar'd from a cop sitting on his motorcycle, looking for speeders.

do they have NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH THEIR TIME than to endanger peoples' lives by having to interact with them? I mean, come on - speeding is largely seen as revenue enhancement (its not about safety; never really was).

for one thing, the cop is risking his health. but worse, citizens are being exposed to someone that probably gets near many more people than anyone should, in this situation.

if a cop pulled you over for speeding - are you within your rights to NOT roll down your window? lets compare: you could risk your very life just to receive a friggin traffic ticket?

I know - the roads are mostly empty and so people are driving faster. SO WHAT! we have bigger fish to fry than 'business as usual'.
[/rant]

does this kind of behavior piss anyone else, off?

I'm not sure what I'd do if I was stopped. if the cop was wearing a mask that would be one thing, but when I passed him by, he was not wearing one and I doubt he'd come to the car wearing one.

wonder how the law would view such a situation?

Yes. Given that I'm a a habitual speeder, I feel your pain.



Last time a cop pulled me over in the P3D he asked me "do you know why I pulled you over?" My reply - "because I let you?" Needless to say, I did not get out of that ticket.