Range mode charges don't reach 265+, and 90% charges don't reach my usual 232-234 rated miles.
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mknox
Well-Known Member
I did my first Range Charge that went to completion last night. The last two tries (months ago) resulted in the charge rate slowing down and I had to unplug and leave before it finished. I got 242 Rated Miles and the car has just a bit over 18,000 miles on it. Last summer, when it got to about 99%, I ended up with 260 miles.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Well, I just posted as another data point. Yes, summer of 2013, but I don't know if it's excessive because I was on different firmware versions. For all I know the calculations that Tesla uses have changed.
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Big differences. Last summer it was probably in the mid 70's and last night it was probably close to 0 F in my garage. Having said that, I haven't really noticed any difference in the Rated Miles I get after charging when it's cold vs. hot.
William13
Active Member
Please, the battery graphs from Panasonic clearly indicate that this type of Lithium Ion battery loses more capacity during the first cycles and less with later cycles. I also have anxiety attacks about the battery life, but calm myself by looking at the Panasonic battery PDF. Chronological time is NOT covered on these graph, just temperature and up to 500 cycles of charge/discharge. Chronological age is my concern as we are doing most of this Beta test. Tesla could only be about two or three years ahead of Signature cars. I also expect that my cells are six months older than the rest of my car.
Range/100% charged yesterday ahead of a lot of driving this weekend. Ambient temps during most of the charging were in the mid-60s here. I let the charge fully complete. My 60 showed 193 rated miles when it stopped charging and the number stayed the same for 30 minutes after while keeping it plugged in. I have just over 12,500 miles. When I started driving, the rated miles dropped after driving about a mile or so.
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islandbayy
Active Member
19,100 miles, 100% range charge yielded 204 miles on my 60.
I did this while it was nice and warm indoors at the service center. Charged at 40 amp.
They said I have some of the best battery wear they have ever seen
I did this while it was nice and warm indoors at the service center. Charged at 40 amp.
They said I have some of the best battery wear they have ever seen
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The final Rated Range of a range mode charge will likely depend on the charge current used. I noticed with my Roadster that it definitely got higher range when charging at lower current; in fact it was significantly higher on the one occasion I did a range mode charge on 110V (a two day hotel stay is enough to fully charge a Roadster on 110V).
My car will normally get to 401 km on a 40A charger. But on my recent road trip I noticed that the car only charged to 396 km, and that was at higher current - once on a CS-60 (48A) and once on a CS-90 (70A). Another possible factor is that I usually charge in my garage, which rarely goes much below freezing, but this was outdoor charging at -17C.
My car will normally get to 401 km on a 40A charger. But on my recent road trip I noticed that the car only charged to 396 km, and that was at higher current - once on a CS-60 (48A) and once on a CS-90 (70A). Another possible factor is that I usually charge in my garage, which rarely goes much below freezing, but this was outdoor charging at -17C.
It seems like folks that don't baby their battery (eg. are forced to charge to frequently to 100% and get to zero or close to it) appear to have better range. I think batteries that are babied have unbalanced packs and so much of the range is hidden but not lost. It would be interesting to see a model S owner who previously babied their car (20% to 80% soc), suddenly had to change their habits (0% to 100% soc) because of a job change or lots of trips and see what their range is in a couple of months.
There is a big difference though between losing range from imbalanced cells, which is temporary vs the kind of loss that typically comes from frequent full charging and deep cycling batteries, which is permanent. doing shallow mid pack cycling should, over the long haul, help retain range, though to see the extent of that preserved range, a cycle or two of deeper discharges and full charges would likely be necessary.
William13
Active Member
This patent issued to Tesla the other day might help shed some light on the topic.
Full details: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8629657&OS=8629657&RS=8629657
Summary:
I haven't read it in detail myself (click the link for the full patent, above is just the summary). I'll read it later tonight. Could be useful info in there. Could also be just a bunch of unrelated gibberish.
Also FWIW, for the hell of it (since I haven't done it in months), I ranged charged last night and timed it to complete right before I left for work this morning. (so it's wasn't sitting at max range). I am at 35.7k miles now on whatever the latest v5.8 is, and my max range is 254 miles. Not bad. I still think that's mostly just cell-imbalance and not any real degredation.
Full details: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8629657&OS=8629657&RS=8629657
Summary:
I haven't read it in detail myself (click the link for the full patent, above is just the summary). I'll read it later tonight. Could be useful info in there. Could also be just a bunch of unrelated gibberish.
Also FWIW, for the hell of it (since I haven't done it in months), I ranged charged last night and timed it to complete right before I left for work this morning. (so it's wasn't sitting at max range). I am at 35.7k miles now on whatever the latest v5.8 is, and my max range is 254 miles. Not bad. I still think that's mostly just cell-imbalance and not any real degredation.
Near 19,000 miles, last range charge 255 - same for awhile.
Using 5.8.4
'A' battery - delivered end of April.
Typically charge to 60-80% - Range about once a week.
Commute 135 miles - but once a week 280.
Using 5.8.4
'A' battery - delivered end of April.
Typically charge to 60-80% - Range about once a week.
Commute 135 miles - but once a week 280.
Here's an oversimplified explanation.
The pack consists of a whole bunch of series-connected strings of batteries, which are in turn connected in parallel to deliver power to the car.
The cells aren't all perfectly identical. Over time, one of those strings will end up having a lower voltage than all the other ones. One will end up having a higher voltage than the rest of them.
You want to keep every cell in the pack within a certain voltage range. When you get to the top of that range you have to stop charging. Since one string hits the top first, every other string will be a little bit undercharged.
Similarly the low string will limit how much you can discharge the pack. Every other string will have some energy left, but you won't be able to use it without draining the "weak" string too much.
If the strings were all in perfect balance, then you'd be able to drive the maximum possible distance on a charge.
Balancing equalizes the strings. The simple way is to just bleed a little bit of power off the high strings. Tesla doesn't say exactly how they do it, of course.
Elves. This is why it's easier to balance the pack in months other than December: elves have more time for a second job.
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
Can some EU car owners report their numbers. I range charged last weekend and got the numbers. Now as EU has a different notation we have Rated and Typical (which loosely correlate with Ideal and Rated in US). The range I got according to VisibleTesla is:
492.5 rated km394 typical km
Now this does translate to 303 miles, but I don't think the two are quite comparable. I've seen in the Tesla video of winter driving of the Norwegian guy that his car said 491km and looked to be fully charged (I think they charged to max to make it look good in the video). However Rafael de Mestre mentioned that he got 502 when he got the car. Then again he's a signature owner so probably one of the earliest deliveries (he's already got 18k km on it) and might have been a software version thing again. So would love to hear from others. I think I got the car standing on 492.5km for a long time before I recorded it (10-20 minutes for sure) but it wasn't officially charging completed I think before I had to leave in the morning. Then again I doubt the difference would have been more than 0.5-1.5km. The car had 2200km on it at the time I took those numbers.
492.5 rated km394 typical km
Now this does translate to 303 miles, but I don't think the two are quite comparable. I've seen in the Tesla video of winter driving of the Norwegian guy that his car said 491km and looked to be fully charged (I think they charged to max to make it look good in the video). However Rafael de Mestre mentioned that he got 502 when he got the car. Then again he's a signature owner so probably one of the earliest deliveries (he's already got 18k km on it) and might have been a software version thing again. So would love to hear from others. I think I got the car standing on 492.5km for a long time before I recorded it (10-20 minutes for sure) but it wasn't officially charging completed I think before I had to leave in the morning. Then again I doubt the difference would have been more than 0.5-1.5km. The car had 2200km on it at the time I took those numbers.
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