Decreasing rated range.

[irishstoutaz]

We are at 3,200 miles and now see 237 each morning which is down from 242 we saw the first few weeks. We tried the suggestion of 'balancing' the battery by doing a normal charge and then change to a range charge with our HPWC at 5 amps. That took about 8 hours to complete and it finished at 267. We drove for a couple days and did a normal charge last night and are still seeing 237.

 

[bhuwan]

We are at 3,200 miles and now see 237 each morning which is down from 242 we saw the first few weeks. We tried the suggestion of 'balancing' the battery by doing a normal charge and then change to a range charge with our HPWC at 5 amps. That took about 8 hours to complete and it finished at 267. We drove for a couple days and did a normal charge last night and are still seeing 237.

Do you have the latest firmware?(0.61?)

 

[irishstoutaz]

Should have mentioned that... we do (was updated on Thu night and did the range charge on Sat). A little OT but it seems like the A/C runs a little better than it did previously and wonder if .61 had some type of fix. Never really had any complaints other than it didn't seem as 'strong' in cooling but now seems to be a bit better.

Do you have the latest firmware?(0.61?)

 

[SFOTurtle]

I'm halfway through attempting to re-balance my battery. I did a full charge this morning before leaving for work. After finishing charging at very low amps on my NEMA 14-50, the rated miles showed 204 before removing the UMC. But either after removing the UMC or starting the car -- not sure which but I was still sitting in my garage -- the rated miles displayed immediately dropped to 201. I didn't have time to leave the car plugged in for very long after it completed the charge, maybe only 5 minutes or so. I've noticed this a bit of late (albeit at lower SOC) when I charged to 90% and the number would drop immediately after charging had stopped before I had driven the car. Why the drop and does a successful rebalancing address this? Not panicking, I'm just curious.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

This "battery balancing" that you guys are doing... is this an approved procedure from Tesla?

 

[jerry33]

This "battery balancing" that you guys are doing... is this an approved procedure from Tesla?

You are not really balancing the battery, you are just charging at a rate that allows the built in balancing mechanism to work more effectively. Tesla has never said one way or the other for the Model S but this practice has been used on the Roadster for years.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

You are not really balancing the battery, you are just charging at a rate that allows the built in balancing mechanism to work more effectively. Tesla has never said one way or the other for the Model S but this practice has been used on the Roadster for years.

I guess that is my point. What applies to the Roadster doesn't necessarily apply to Model S because it's a newer generation, more highly evolved battery technology. Someone over at the Tesla Motors forums discussed with Tesla the need to leave the vehicle for an extended period of time and Tesla told this person not to charge at under 40 Amps even for extended absences, and to avoid a slow "trickle" type of charge whenever possible.

I don't know how this applies to what people are doing here, I just hope that the techniques you guys are using aren't doing more harm than good.

 

[qwk]

I guess that is my point. What applies to the Roadster doesn't necessarily apply to Model S because it's a newer generation, more highly evolved battery technology. Someone over at the Tesla Motors forums discussed with Tesla the need to leave the vehicle for an extended period of time and Tesla told this person not to charge at under 40 Amps even for extended absences, and to avoid a slow "trickle" type of charge whenever possible.

I don't know how this applies to what people are doing here, I just hope that the techniques you guys are using aren't doing more harm than good.

Lol, this is how bad rumors start. Someone told someone..... How exactly are you going to harm your battery by charging it slower?

 

[SFOTurtle]

Lol, this is how bad rumors start. Someone told someone..... How exactly are you going to harm your battery by charging it slower?

+1. Where has Tesla ever announced that charging the battery on 110v would harm the battery and that such charges are to be avoided???? Please point me to some official Tesla literature that says to avoid charging the battery at a minimum of 40 Amps.

 

[yobigd20]

Tesla told this person not to charge at under 40 Amps even for extended absences, and to avoid a slow "trickle" type of charge whenever possible.

That's the opposite of what I was told directly by a Tesla lead tech manager (not heresay). I was told the slower the better. 110v being the best for the battery.

 

[DavidM]

We are at 3,200 miles and now see 237 each morning which is down from 242 we saw the first few weeks. We tried the suggestion of 'balancing' the battery by doing a normal charge and then change to a range charge with our HPWC at 5 amps. That took about 8 hours to complete and it finished at 267. We drove for a couple days and did a normal charge last night and are still seeing 237.

I was standard charging to 242 right up until my upgrade to ver 4.5. After that, max std charge is 237. No big deal, but just pointing out that nothing is wrong with your battery. I believe this was just a result of the upgrade.

 

[bluetinc]

Before 4.5, standard charging was 93%, with 4.5 the max standard charge has been reduced to 90% which should show up as a drop of about 7-9 miles.

Peter

I was standard charging to 242 right up until my upgrade to ver 4.5. After that, max std charge is 237. No big deal, but just pointing out that nothing is wrong with your battery. I believe this was just a result of the upgrade.

 

[TokyoRush]

Bluetinc - that's exactly what I was going to say. This is just a result of how the software is managing the charge, not how the battery is working. 4.5 only charges to 90% on a standard charge.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

+1. Where has Tesla ever announced that charging the battery on 110v would harm the battery and that such charges are to be avoided???? Please point me to some official Tesla literature that says to avoid charging the battery at a minimum of 40 Amps.

A lot of what we think comes from Tesla ends up coming from someone who talked to someone at Tesla. I am not making representations here, I'm simply asking a question based on what I read over at Tesla Motors forums. There is no need to jump all over me for asking a question, we come here for answers don't we?

Here is the thread: How long can I leave it charging? | Forums | Tesla Motors

Reference post by nickjhowe, who bases his advice on this thread: Tech Talk Revelations | Forums | Tesla Motors

I'm just trying to learn like the rest of you.

 

[bluetinc]

Hey Aviators,

Not to try to call anyone out, but could you point me at anyone who has over 20k miles and still is seeing over 270 mi of rated range on a full range charge? Since I've also been tracking my falling range, and when talking with service, it would be really nice to be able to point out someone with similar mileage who hasn't seen the 8% drop I have. So far, all the numbers I've seen from others seem to be close to mine


Peter

Agreed that yours is what I would expect. My rated max range has gone from 273 to 258. I know of people with over 20,000 miles who are still up in the 270s. I do notice that the OP has twin chargers, and I have a hypothesis that 80A charging could be a factor. So far, it's not very scientific. Could also be something about Gray/Black ;-)

 

[irishstoutaz]

Thanks... I am actually not very concerned but just tried the balancing to see if we would get any extra on a standard charge since it had dropped a few miles and some people had success doing that. Given that we got a full charge of 267 I don't think there is any issue and maybe the small drop 237 is based on our driving. FWIW we had our car delivered with v4.5 (.44) so never had v4.4 where people saw the change when moving to v4.5

I was standard charging to 242 right up until my upgrade to ver 4.5. After that, max std charge is 237. No big deal, but just pointing out that nothing is wrong with your battery. I believe this was just a result of the upgrade.

 

[Owner]

I did a survey on this. Only a few people are at 270, most of us are 225-245

Rated Range Results | Tesla Owner

Hey Aviators,

Not to try to call anyone out, but could you point me at anyone who has over 20k miles and still is seeing over 270 mi of rated range on a full range charge? Since I've also been tracking my falling range, and when talking with service, it would be really nice to be able to point out someone with similar mileage who hasn't seen the 8% drop I have. So far, all the numbers I've seen from others seem to be close to mine


Peter

 

[brianman]

I did a survey on this. Only a few people are at 270, most of us are 225-245
Rated Range Results | Tesla Owner

For the "Rated Range vs. Distance 85kWh Battery" chart...
I have high confidence your > 250 data points are Range/Trip (100%) and your < 250 data points are Standard/Daily (92/90%).

The "~8k, ~205" data point in that chart is somewhat troubling.

 

[bluetinc]

Owner,

I took a look at your results, and it looks like you have a lot of bad data coming into your survey. Because:

1. Beginning with 4.5 there are various charge level settings (50-90% SOC "standard range" and 90-100% SOC trip range) and with 4.4 and prior there was only a standard charge 93% SOC and Max Range 100% SOC

2. Vampire power draw reduces the displayed range slowly after the end of a charge so if my charge completes at 9pm, and I look on the display the next morning my number will have fallen from 255 at 9 PM to about ~248 at 9am.


I hope you understand the as far as anyone knows, NO ONES full range has decreased from 270s down to 225, you are just comparing various states of charge along with battery degradation on top of that.

Peter


Followup: As a note, it's not surprising that owners are confused by all this, as we are now finding, the "rated range" energy unit can vary from car to car, mileage is decremented at a even different number, and there has been what appears to be noticeable degradation of the battery in many cars decreasing the range by 10-25 miles.

I did a survey on this. Only a few people are at 270, most of us are 225-245

Rated Range Results | Tesla Owner

 

[aviators99]

Hey Aviators,

Not to try to call anyone out, but could you point me at anyone who has over 20k miles and still is seeing over 270 mi of rated range on a full range charge? Since I've also been tracking my falling range, and when talking with service, it would be really nice to be able to point out someone with similar mileage who hasn't seen the 8% drop I have. So far, all the numbers I've seen from others seem to be close to mine


Peter

I will PM one person who told me that, and give him the link to this thread. Not sure if (s)he will reply or not. I'm down around 254 now, by the way, as measured with 4.5.