Decreasing rated range.

[wycolo]

SCing is by original design a long-trip only event. Someday we may learn of what results from *only* SCing an MS, like an apt dweller w/o any charging at work, etc. We might be surprised by the results.

But SCing is free and by design time saving. When you pay at home for needlessly fast charge, the extra energy from AC cooling comes out of your pocket. Heavily loading the wiring on your side of the electric meter, if you have a long underground service cable for example, results in electrical losses (I*R) that you pay for. Charging at just enough amps so the car is ready next morning will save money.
--

 

[TeslaSinHR]

1. Go for a joy ride of 100+ miles with the AC on full comfort (i.e. no venting, etc. to save juice).
2. Return home and park in your garage.
3. Plug in.
4. Wait 90 minutes.
5. In the car, reduce your amperage to 5A (if you're on 208+V) or 10A (if you're on 110V).
6. Let it finish charging.
7. Check every 7 minutes on your phone or in car until it says "Charge complete".
Sounds like a PITA, but I bet you'll see 230+ after doing this.

Any chance of starting a Wiki page to gather the latest "best practices" for battery care?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Someone over at Teslamotors forum claims that charging at minimum amps killed his 12v battery. Just saying.

 

[Lloyd]

Someone over at Teslamotors forum claims that charging at minimum amps killed his 12v battery. Just saying.

I don't believe that. Completely separated systems!!

 

[ZBB]

Another data point:

201 miles range charge
177 miles standard charge (90% on 4.5.61)
13,000 miles driven
298 whm avg

I used to get 208 miles range charge and between 192-187 miles on standard charge (93% prior to 4.5). Balancing used to be a difference of 5 miles max. A 90% charge should top out at 187, so 177 is 10 miles under that. In addition to my range charge topping at 201, I think some of us are seeing real loss.

I also have a 60 and am seeing similar numbers -- although my car just passed 5k miles and a few days shy of 4 months. Car has been on 3 variants of 4.5 since delivery.

I've done 2 range charges -- one was about a month into ownership and it showed 208 miles when done. Second was yesterday and it showed 202 miles when done.

I normally charge to 75% on the slider. For the first 6 weeks, it would show ~152 in the mornings after charging and has been slowly decreasing from there. Its now showing 145. I've done some 90% charges too -- and am seeing 179 now (vs ~185 earlier). All numbers quoted are Rated...

 

[Dave EV]

I don't believe that. Completely separated systems!!

Yeah, if anything, slow charging should keep the DC-DC inverter active and thus keep the 12V battery topped off better.

Could easily verify this by watching 12V battery voltage during a charge.

 

[mnx]

Someone over at Teslamotors forum claims that charging at minimum amps killed his 12v battery. Just saying.

Please try to remember where you read something and post a link. Posting something you read somewhere as fact only spreads rumours or false information... It was brianman who ran into trouble while charging @ 240/6A but it's by no means conclusive that charging @ 6A killed his 12V. It could have simply been coincidence.

You might consider charging slower - Page 8

 

[nanimac]

Any range-limited 40kwh/60's on this thread? I've had my car for 3 months now and started out at 138-140 miles rated and am now down to 132 miles rated. Since I actually have a 60kwh battery, shouldn't it make sense that the 40's would stay at the original rated range? Just wondering. Seems like a software fix, but wondering if other 40/60 owners are experiencing the same drain.

 

[fluxemag]

Any range-limited 40kwh/60's on this thread? I've had my car for 3 months now and started out at 138-140 miles rated and am now down to 132 miles rated. Since I actually have a 60kwh battery, shouldn't it make sense that the 40's would stay at the original rated range? Just wondering. Seems like a software fix, but wondering if other 40/60 owners are experiencing the same drain.

I started at 145 and now I'm at 134 after 5000 miles and 4 months. I'm bringing it in for them to investigate. Tried charging at 5A and it didn't make any difference (besides taking forever). It seems to drop 1 mile of rated range every 500 miles, which is about 2 weeks of driving for me. Not an encouraging trend. But I don't know if it's going to continue in such an established linear trend towards 0, or taper off.

 

[wraithnot]

I did a range charge Sunday morning before a day trip and I'm now at 260 rated miles after 15,132 total miles and a bit more than six months of driving. I just updated my data on the Plug in America Model S Survey: Plug In America and it looks like that is similar to many other 85 kWh packs with similar mileage. But one lucky owner still reports the full 265 rated miles after driving 32,756 miles!

 

[Sacrament055]

Yes, my 40 started at 145 rated miles and now only gets to 138 after 4 months. I have my car in for the fog light retrofit and mentioned to them about the battery and they're going to look into it. The part that I found odd is that even if the pack were experiencing degradation it should still be able to hit 72%. I don't know how they do what they do but it seems like if each cell is being charged they can each individually hit 72% even after 4 months.

 

[bluetinc]

Hi Sacrament,

An interesting note is that the Software limited 40's are not able to balance their batteries at 100% like the 60's and 85's are. I've found that it seems that the lower my standard daily charge is set to, the more out of balance my pack becomes. (This isn't terribly surprising) I've seen my range at 50% vary by as much as 8 miles after balancing.

I don't quite follow your notes about hitting 72% no matter what. 72% is a 72% State of Charge (SOC), not 72% of 208 miles.

Peter

Yes, my 40 started at 145 rated miles and now only gets to 138 after 4 months. I have my car in for the fog light retrofit and mentioned to them about the battery and they're going to look into it. The part that I found odd is that even if the pack were experiencing degradation it should still be able to hit 72%. I don't know how they do what they do but it seems like if each cell is being charged they can each individually hit 72% even after 4 months.

 

[Eeyago]

Yes, my 40 started at 145 rated miles and now only gets to 138 after 4 months. I have my car in for the fog light retrofit and mentioned to them about the battery and they're going to look into it. The part that I found odd is that even if the pack were experiencing degradation it should still be able to hit 72%. I don't know how they do what they do but it seems like if each cell is being charged they can each individually hit 72% even after 4 months.

I'm in the same boat with my 40. But getting only around 134 after 6000 miles. Still on firmware 4.5.

 

[mknox]

It was brianman who ran into trouble while charging @ 240/6A but it's by no means conclusive that charging @ 6A killed his 12V. It could have simply been coincidence.

I've been charging at low amperage for over 6 months since I got the car. (Long story.... still haven't got my "permanent" wiring installed yet). I have had no issues with the 12v or any other system as a result.

 

[nanimac]

Yes, my 40 started at 145 rated miles and now only gets to 138 after 4 months. I have my car in for the fog light retrofit and mentioned to them about the battery and they're going to look into it. The part that I found odd is that even if the pack were experiencing degradation it should still be able to hit 72%. I don't know how they do what they do but it seems like if each cell is being charged they can each individually hit 72% even after 4 months.

Wow..the highest my rated range reached was 141. Seems odd that it would be different if it's just a software thing limiting the range. Let me know what the SC says about the battery. I may bring mine in to get checked out too.

 

[brianman]

Someone over at Teslamotors forum claims that charging at minimum amps killed his 12v battery. Just saying.

Are you sure this isn't an incorrect retelling of my post (on TMC)?

 

[Sacrament055]

Hi Sacrament,

An interesting note is that the Software limited 40's are not able to balance their batteries at 100% like the 60's and 85's are. I've found that it seems that the lower my standard daily charge is set to, the more out of balance my pack becomes. (This isn't terribly surprising) I've seen my range at 50% vary by as much as 8 miles after balancing.

I don't quite follow your notes about hitting 72% no matter what. 72% is a 72% State of Charge (SOC), not 72% of 208 miles.

Peter

I guess I was looking at it like each cell should be hitting 72% charge which I wouldn't expect them to be unable to reach that charge level until the batteries had degraded significantly. Obviously I misunderstood the way the batteries work and as I've been following these forums I'm now given to understand that if a battery or batteries reaches the target level it stops charging that bank (even though some may not be at that charge level) hence the lower mileage and out of balance people are talking about.

I have noticed that if I start the charge from a lower level it gets to a higher number when it's done. Also I get a couple more miles of rated range if I charge at at 110 instead of 240.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow..the highest my rated range reached was 141. Seems odd that it would be different if it's just a software thing limiting the range. Let me know what the SC says about the battery. I may bring mine in to get checked out too.

Unfortunately all they said was that it's within their expected degradation for the battery type and number of miles.

 

[nanimac]

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately all they said was that it's within their expected degradation for the battery type and number of miles.

thanks for letting me know. At this rate, will have to fork over $$$ for the 60 range upgrade in a couple years when range will be less than a Leaf! Am not very happy about that!

 

[bluetinc]

I guess I was looking at it like each cell should be hitting 72% charge which I wouldn't expect them to be unable to reach that charge level until the batteries had degraded significantly. Obviously I misunderstood the way the batteries work and as I've been following these forums I'm now given to understand that if a battery or batteries reaches the target level it stops charging that bank (even though some may not be at that charge level) hence the lower mileage and out of balance people are talking about.

It sounds like you have a good understanding of the pack getting out of balance.

When thinking about the 72% SOC, it may be easier to think of a glass of water. The water in the glass representing how far you can drive. The percentage full is how full the glass is. As the batteries degrade, the width of the glass gets narrower. You will always be able to fill the glass up to the same height, but the amount of water the glass is holding will be less. This means even when the battery is very old, you will always be able to charge up to 72% SOC, but that will be a smaller total amount of energy storage than before.

Peter

 

[aaron.s]

All -

Not too long ago (after 4.5 came out) my 90% charge went from 231 to now 228/229. Did my first range charge in a long time yesterday at a supercharger and it ended at 258 (and was stuck there for a while before the car stopped charging)... Not thrilled, but in the past couple of days have started charging at 245 volts @ 6 Amps to see if I can get the pack balanced again.

I'm at 16,870 miles....

Aaron