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breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
You had a different pack, different charging rate and different target SOC. I don't see how you can draw any conclusions from that at all.
Mike_Schlechter
Model S - P457
I did my first range charge in recent memory today and topped out at 247. I have an A pack and 33k miles.
Feels low to me, as a year ago I was getting 257. I have to go in for an unrelated issue in the near future; think I should mention this as well?
Feels low to me, as a year ago I was getting 257. I have to go in for an unrelated issue in the near future; think I should mention this as well?
UberEV1
Member
@Walla - What charging parameters did you use when you received your refurbished pack?
All I know is degradation was minimal when I used to charge at 90-93 at lower amps.
I have gone back to that now to halt my loss of range and so far that has worked. So I do feel I can write what I wrote.
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I went through a number of range / balancing things for over a month. Then charged using the slider at 40 amps. Still noticed a loss. Now holding steady back to my old ways. I hope it continues to hold.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Diito. I have reverted to a 90% setting and regularly charge at 16 amps / 240 volts. We'll see how it goes. I've been getting 214 miles @ 90%. A-pack with 19 months and about 34,000 miles of use.
For what it's worth, unless I'm charging on 120V, it's always 40A. My range has not dropped much, so I don't think that lower power charging is related to anything.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
All I can say is that reading this thread is making me nervous as hell about how I treat the car. There's absolutely zero credible information about what is the best way to treat the car. Just a whole lot of anecdotal cases. For all I know I should do a little dance when I plug in the car to avoid problems.
No reason to get worried. The summary is that some people are meticulous about how they treat the battery and others don't care at all. Based on this thread, both approaches result in negligible range loss - if anything, those that treat the battery the roughest, have on average less degradation... (but the ocd folks will claim they just need to do some balancing) .... Basically, just relax and enjoy.
You're a new owner? I'm confident you have nothing to worry about. Your D pack will hold up quite well given that you charge it to 80-90% daily and 100% only when you need it.
Well, "balancing" does restore real, usable range so it's not completely OCD if you do it on the order of 1-2 times per month.
This thread is an amazing collection of owners, all having the same problem, decreased rated range beyond the expected degradation curve and in most cases it seems to be related to daily undercharging. Maybe its time to draft another open letter to Tesla to review this issue. I have SC appointment this week and plan to ask, however, I am not encouraged that I will have any confidence in the response I recieve as there is obviously no corperate level guidance on this issue.
I have been charging to 60% since offered last year, thinking I was saving the battery from degrading. Saw my RR drop quickly after ownership to 257, about in 4-5 months. I would typically range charge 3-4 times a month. I felt fine with this level as I attributed it to the early degradation I expected. I have in the last 2 months, not range charged at all, now suddenly down to 252. Vin 16xxx with 8/13 delivery and B battery. I have added back 1 mile on a re-check range charge tonight.
Just feel that the lack of guidance on this issue has been astounding from a company that otherwise is hypervigalent over some of the smallest complaints one may have. The battery is the drive train of this car for all intents and purposes. Lost range on screen for any reason is lost range, be it degradation (which I think is not happening en masse like this) or imbalance, the effect on ownership is the same.
For now, I am definately going to stop my 60% charging and go to 90%. Maybe add a 100% charge 1-2 times a week to see if range still adds. Will post the SC response when I get it. If not a satifactory response, I would be open to writing a letter to Jerome asking the issue be revisited by them. The company needs to provide guidance beyond "charge to daily needs and keeped plugged in" to the owners. In a similar letter, he responded that this is simply a "software" issue and not to be alarmed it will be fixed. My concern is that multiple software issues have been made and yet the issue persists. If software is the issue, they need to provide guidance on several issues. Is the range then really there? Will rated miles come off slower in these cases or is the car software "undercharging" the car therefore effectively degrading the owners range? If software, why does successive range charging seem to improve things? Is there any credance to the balance issue? Can an option be made to follow the car batteries total energy capacity, to allow the owner better visablilty into the batteries health?
I have been charging to 60% since offered last year, thinking I was saving the battery from degrading. Saw my RR drop quickly after ownership to 257, about in 4-5 months. I would typically range charge 3-4 times a month. I felt fine with this level as I attributed it to the early degradation I expected. I have in the last 2 months, not range charged at all, now suddenly down to 252. Vin 16xxx with 8/13 delivery and B battery. I have added back 1 mile on a re-check range charge tonight.
Just feel that the lack of guidance on this issue has been astounding from a company that otherwise is hypervigalent over some of the smallest complaints one may have. The battery is the drive train of this car for all intents and purposes. Lost range on screen for any reason is lost range, be it degradation (which I think is not happening en masse like this) or imbalance, the effect on ownership is the same.
For now, I am definately going to stop my 60% charging and go to 90%. Maybe add a 100% charge 1-2 times a week to see if range still adds. Will post the SC response when I get it. If not a satifactory response, I would be open to writing a letter to Jerome asking the issue be revisited by them. The company needs to provide guidance beyond "charge to daily needs and keeped plugged in" to the owners. In a similar letter, he responded that this is simply a "software" issue and not to be alarmed it will be fixed. My concern is that multiple software issues have been made and yet the issue persists. If software is the issue, they need to provide guidance on several issues. Is the range then really there? Will rated miles come off slower in these cases or is the car software "undercharging" the car therefore effectively degrading the owners range? If software, why does successive range charging seem to improve things? Is there any credance to the balance issue? Can an option be made to follow the car batteries total energy capacity, to allow the owner better visablilty into the batteries health?
I believe you are wrong on all counts. Many members are posting almost no degradation on this thread. Others are posting marginal, <10% after significant time/miles. A very small few are posting degredation > 10%. Most, including me, have seen missing range restored by charging 90% for 10 days or more. No need to range charge.
Tesla does have guidance. They seem to be comfortable w up to 90% daily, range when you really need it, as seldom as possible.
Do do not despair, for vast majority there's no big issue and we seek to understand. I'd welcome further guidance from tesla, but a letter should only be from those with real issues. 250s is not an issue.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Yup, I picked up on Wednesday. I've been charging to 80% and that's been leaving me with around 70 miles of range left from my trips.
You ...don't... do the dance? Oh, man, I'm so sorry. I'll come with you when you get your battery replacement if you need a sympathetic ear.
Or, you could just follow Tesla's official recommendation which is to charge to 90% and plug in whenever possible. Doesn't that seem much simpler and easier than trying to figure out the inner workings of a battery that required many engineers hundreds of man hours to design? I've been charging in the 50%-70% range thinking that was best for the battery - and it very well might be. I drive conservatively and have only supercharged once for only a few minutes. I've had the car for 13 months and max charged three times. My 100% charge went from (ideal) 301 miles in March to 292 miles today.
I understand the range display is only an estimate, but that estimate is what I rely upon when driving the car. Based upon my range estimate, I've lost miles even though I've pampered the battery to no end since taking delivery of the car. If anything, babying the battery seems to exacerbate and increase the "range loss" as reported by the car's range estimate. I don't quite know what to make of all this, but I am now charging the car to 90% and not thinking too much about it.
hans
P631
And most are somewhere in between these two extremes.
I don't always make the best choices regarding personal health but this is one of those examples where I choose to "let it go" and if my battery suffers some amount from not being "meticulous" then so be it.
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