Degradation of the Community...

[Chopr147]

Hey, TMC sounds like a community after all.

Maybe A dysfunctional, disjointed, disabled, discordant, disposable community, but it works

 

[tomas]

It was nice to see a respectful back and forth on this thread! Well done.

I need to give TMC another chance, but with much more liberal use of the ignore feature for the few who can't help themselves.

After writing about 5 posts recently and deleting them... I think you are right. If I put about 5 people on ignore, the forum quality improves dramatically. Problem is, for example, one ignore candidate makes very good and useful points when talking about the car, but is a sanctimonious jerk when talking about politics or the company. Oh well. I can miss a few good points while avoiding a ton of venom.

 

[OBX John]

After writing about 5 posts recently and deleting them... I think you are right. If I put about 5 people on ignore, the forum quality improves dramatically. Problem is, for example, one ignore candidate makes very good and useful points when talking about the car, but is a sanctimonious jerk when talking about politics or the company. Oh well. I can miss a few good points while avoiding a ton of venom.

Yes, the knowledge factor here at TMC is off the charts compared with Reddit or other forums.

I think part of my problem is I usually look at the "new posts" feed here, and since the people arguing often keep those threads very active, I see a disproportionate number of threads that have devolved into the typical back and forth nonsense. What other strategies do people use to find interesting threads that haven't been ruined yet?

 

[bhzmark]

what can we do?

there is one member who jumps in on nearly EVERY conversation that touches on anything AP to accuse Tesla of fraud... Ugh...

I agree that liberal use of the ignore function is the way to escape your suffering. The person you are referring to above you have to add to your ignore list.

And resist clicking on "show ignored content".

It greatly improves the signal-to-noise ratio on the Forum and helps you avoid getting sucked down troll holes or otherwise unproductive conversations with people who are more emotional or partisan and not subject to reason, logic and evidence -- or whatever your standard for your ignore list is.

 

[Electroman]

For instance, there is one member who jumps in on nearly EVERY conversation that touches on anything AP to accuse Tesla of fraud

Hmm.. I wonder who that is?

 

[GoTslaGo]

I think that's arguable. Would his goal, for example, be that others succeed so well that Tesla is trampled on and fails? Probably not. I think the argument that Elon is more a selfish business person at times than a man on a mission has some merit to it. Painting it as an unselfish mission is probably not accurate either.

But I do agree with the BEV mission and the world changing personally, and do agree it is a mission for Elon as well. But I do think he'd also want to win it and would IMO probably fight attempts by others to win it, even to the detriment of the mission. (No, I don't think the patent case is any proof to the contrary.)

The automaking industry is 1.7 trillion dollars worldwide (as of 2015). I don't think Elon's goal is unrealistic. One automaker cannot own the entire industry.

It's fine for him to be selfish, I never said that he wasn't. Owning even 4-5% of a 1.7 trillion dollar industry is quite good. If that ownership moves the world to a better place, better. If you can profit from that move because you foresaw it and pushed it, even better. I personally think the patent case is not proof to the contrary and a smart business move.

Either way, this discussion doesn't belong here so I will no longer continue it.

 

[bonnie]

I'd love it if the Ignore function were expanded to also include any posts quoting the ignored content in a response. Then I wouldn't see it at all.

 

[ohmman]

I'd love it if the Ignore function were expanded to also include any posts quoting the ignored content in a response. Then I wouldn't see it at all.

Superignore?

 

[tomas]

Obli

Superignore?

obliterate

 

[GoTslaGo]

Here's my problem with the "ignore" button, instead of the green dots and rep points.

When someone gets put on "ignore" for spouting incorrect stuff, then noobs who don't know any better will think that person is correct. "Disagree" only partially mitigates this, but can easily be construed as more of a personal attack rather than a reasoned response. Reasoned responses to "ignored" people will often devolve and derail a thread, making it unreadable, unless one "ignores".

Green dots and rep points, with ultimate "community" banning helped control this dis-information. I'm guessing this is how Reddit does it with up votes and down votes. With the previous forum format I did not see real criticisms result in complete banning of members. It was thoughtfully discussed...

Only when members became outright obtuse and belligerent did I see the member's status devolve into the dreaded red dot (banned), and some just disappeared. Some who got banned were not anti-Tesla, but very pro-Tesla as well. The attitude mattered, not just the content.

With "ignore", the offending party keeps getting to post and offend, with the occasional trip to snippiness. The moderators get overworked, having to actually do most of the moderating (impossible with current numbers and interest).

A return to a format where the forum members themselves can up-vote or down-vote each other, IMHO, could help greater civility.

Just my opinion.

 

[EinSV]

I make liberal use of the Ignore button but it only goes so far.

In addition to the issues raised by @GoTslaGo and others, imagine you are a Tesla owner or customer who comes to the site for the first time. Does it look like a community you want to participate in, or do you just move on?

The Ignore button doesn't solve that problem. I think all the nastiness here is very likely driving many enthusiastic Tesla owners away. It would be great to have a bunch of excited Model 3 customers and owners inject new energy and new ideas into the site, but I expect many are turned off by the atmosphere.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

There is a balance to be struck, for sure.

I would argue there were times when the atmosphere was chasing away almost all but the most pro-Tesla voices.

It was not good either when a critical experience immediately got a dozen "Go away short!" type of responses as well as some more hidden passive aggressive ones.

Balance...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If I put about 5 people on ignore, the forum quality improves dramatically.

I'm not sure the quality improves. It enforces your echo chamber, which is more pleasant. But that's no good for evolving your own views.

That's why I use the function very sparingly (just the one person whose disagrees were filling my notifications and whom talk could not reach).

If I just wanted to enforce my worldview (for myself), half this thread would be on ignore.

 

[EinSV]

There is a balance to be struck, for sure.

I would argue there were times when the atmosphere was chasing away almost all but the most pro-Tesla voices.

It was not good either when a critical experience immediately got a dozen "Go away short!" type of responses as well as some more hidden passive aggressive ones.

Balance...

IMO, that unfortunate type of reaction is a direct result of a history of many malevolent posters on the site (by malevolent I mean people out to harm Tesla not owners who are upset at Tesla).

It is the "boy who cried wolf" problem expanded to a larger group. If there were no BS/fake posts, this sort of reaction would be much less likely or nonexistent.

There is also the opposite problem that when legitimate issues are raised by owners seeking help/advice, that is used as an opportunity for general purpose Tesla bashing by those so inclined. I think this gets in the way of helpful and productive discussions, and I expect also makes some reluctant to raise issues to avoid starting another kvetch-fest.

Having said all that, I agree that new posters with problems/issues should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ohmman]

I'm not sure the quality improves. It enforces your echo chamber, which is more pleasant. But that's no good for evolving your own views.

No. You are once again reframing this discussion to be about pro-Tesla and anti-Tesla sentiment, when that is not the case. It's about communicating with respect. Ignoring members who do not exhibit the kind of conversational tone that one expects doesn't create an echo chamber. There is still plenty of dissent, just dissent that's communicated appropriately. What ignoring does do is remove repetitive, poorly phrased commentary from members who have proven themselves (to the ignorer) to have little positive effect on the discussion. That's vastly different than creating an echo chamber.

I understand that anti-Tesla sentiment is often more abrasive than pro-Tesla sentiment. That's to be expected in a forum like this. But don't frame this as a pro/anti Tesla discussion. You distill it down to something it's not.

 

[OBX John]

No. You are once again reframing this discussion to be about pro-Tesla and anti-Tesla sentiment, when that is not the case. It's about communicating with respect. Ignoring members who do not exhibit the kind of conversational tone that one expects doesn't create an echo chamber. There is still plenty of dissent, just dissent that's communicated appropriately. What ignoring does do is remove repetitive, poorly phrased commentary from members who have proven themselves (to the ignorer) to have little positive effect on the discussion. That's vastly different than creating an echo chamber.

I understand that anti-Tesla sentiment is often more abrasive than pro-Tesla sentiment. That's to be expected in a forum like this. But don't frame this as a pro/anti Tesla discussion. You distill it down to something it's not.

You nailed it.

It's not an echo chamber at all, it's actually much easier to hear other viewpoints when not wading through the snippyness.

I agree with the other posters points about the ignore function not improving the tone overall, unless we can get those who like to go back and forth with the personal attacks to ignore each other!

 

[tomas]

There is a balance to be struck, for sure.

I would argue there were times when the atmosphere was chasing away almost all but the most pro-Tesla voices.

It was not good either when a critical experience immediately got a dozen "Go away short!" type of responses as well as some more hidden passive aggressive ones.

Balance...

Find me one single example of a critical experience drawing a dozen go away short messages. One.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

No. You are once again reframing this discussion to be about pro-Tesla and anti-Tesla sentiment, when that is not the case. It's about communicating with respect.

I guess this is where we disagree. I do not believe it is about communicating with respect alone. The same amount of respect or lack thereof produces different results based on the opinions and biases involved.

It is only human.

 

[bonnie]

I guess this is where we disagree. I do not believe it is about communicating with respect alone. The same amount of respect or lack thereof produces different results based on the opinions and biases involved.

It is only human.

That is worth discussion, certainly.

But at least you agree regarding civility, respect, and not taking direct or indirect potshots at others? Yes?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That is worth discussion, certainly.

But at least you agree regarding civility, respect, and not taking direct or indirect potshots at others? Yes?

I do.

And I appreciate your first sentence there. It is a complex topic.