ucmndd
Well-Known Member
ALL 3/Y produced in the US in 2023 were model year 2023. The switchover did not happen until January.
There are zero 2024 M3Ps in the US.
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Discussion : All discussion regarding Model 3 and Tax credit in model 3 subforum
- Thread starter mapman
- Start date
There are zero 2024 M3Ps in the US.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I literally cited someone taking delivery of a 2024 Model Y in 2023 in the post you are replying to- so clearly not all 3/Y produced in 23 were 23s.
It's certainly possible they just stopped making 3Ps before the switchover-- but that doesn't change the fact what the website says about Ps getting the tax credit does not apply to some doesn't-exist-yet-highland-P, but instead applies to any previously-built-but-not-yet-sold pre-refresh ones.
Currently we have no idea if Highland Ps will qualify-- but there's some decent argument why they won't (because it'd make it pointless for anyone to buy a LR AWD, unless they either just stop making those as they did once before, or they slash the price on it and the RWD pretty significantly)
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
All Model 3/Y produced in the US in 2023 are 2023 models. The US model year cutover did not happen until January.
As we’re taking about cars delivered in the US for purposes of the US tax credit, it seemed obvious to me that we would scope the conversation to the US and citing a delivery in the EU made in a foreign factory is not relevant to the conversation.
There’s no speculation at play here - there aren’t any 2024 Model 3 Performance cars in the US as of today. They didn’t make any.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
3LR price will have to come down. It’s already too expensive compared to Model Y. They’re just gouging the first movers right now because they can.
But I agree the 3P, given all the changes rumored, probably won’t start under $55k, at least at first.
sperkin
Active Member
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Occhis
Member
Tiger
Active Member
Unless you have satisfactory aftermarket replacements for these, a couple of seconds is not worth tens of thousands of dollars if you don't have them in excess.
BTW: There is nothing good in the new steering wheel with its haptic buttons, it might even be a showstopper. At least I am going to jump for the aftermarket stalks as soon as they are out.
MagnusMako
Member
I'm confused on how these new EV tax credits work with this new system. If I 'receive the credit immediately at the point of sale' to transfer the credit to the dealership, how do I know if I qualify for the full amount even if I'm under the income cap? All my tax with-holdings last year made it so I got a refund this year, so does that mean I don't get a discount because there is no applicable credit reduction in what I owe?
Eligibility won't have anything to do with whether you owed or got a refund on taxes last year. It's based on your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) threshold values. When they say it's "nonrefundable" (confusing word IMO), what they mean is that you can't get a net payment from the government on it (i.e. can not be higher than your "Total Tax Liability").
Simple example: Let's say your AGI was $20k for the year, and that your total tax owed for the year was $3,000. You can't get the entire $7,500 credit because that would make your total tax liability negative (-$4,500). Therefore, they limit the refund to what you owed ($3,000). I have no clue how that all works with a Point-of-Sale system to know what it's limited to. Only one of last/this year needs to qualify, so I expect they might need to have you upload your 1040 for them to check last year's tax filings? If you qualify, you're golden. If you don't, maybe they give a provisional credit? I expect the car dealer is taking the risk at that point.
Again, the April 15th Tax Filing (what you owe, what they refund) is not relevant, it's AGI and total tax liability. Not the "settle up" you do when you submit the 1040 filing.
Hope that helps?
MagnusMako
Member
Thanks for sharing. So I did a bit more research on this and apparently if you get the tax credit at the dealer, then the $7,500 tax liability is not required. Source: IRS FS-2023-29, page 14 which states "The amount of the credit that the electing taxpayer elects to transfer to the eligible entity may exceed the electing taxpayer's regular tax liability for the taxable year in which the sale occurs, and the excess, if any, is not subject to recapture from the dealer or the buyer.") So someone with $0 tax liability could go to the dealer, buy a qualifying EV, get the $7,500 tax credit money there, and not have to pay back anything to the IRS or anyone in the future.
Occhis
Member
Yes you would get the credit at the dealer, but if 7500 exceeds your total tax liability then you must pay IRS back for the difference. That’s the “non-refundable” part. As stated above you cannot have a net negative tax for the year.
That is not how the point of sale credit works. The amount transfered to to you via the dealer from Treasury is not counted as income nor a tax credit. There is no clawback other than ineligability due to income.
Frequently asked questions about the New, Previously-Owned and Qualified Commercial Clean Vehicles Credit | Internal Revenue Service
Occhis
Member
That is indeed how it now works. I was not able to get the full 7500 on my 2023 return as my total tax was less than 7500, but this year I would qualify 
. Guess I’ll have to go buy another one this year just so I can get the credit!!
. Guess I’ll have to go buy another one this year just so I can get the credit!!To be clear, it's not that you qualify for the full $7,500 personal credit; rather, you would qualify for the $7,500 point of sale transfer. They are actually separate sections of the law with completely different tax treatments.That is indeed how it now works. I was not able to get the full 7500 on my 2023 return as my total tax was less than 7500, but this year I would qualify
30D(c)(2) "Personal credit. For purposes of this title, the credit allowed under subsection (a) for any taxable year (determined after application of paragraph (1)) shall be treated as a credit allowable under subpart A for such taxable year." Non-refundable
Versus 30D(g)(7)(C) "Treatment of advance payments. For purposes of section 1324 of title 31, United States Code, the payments under subparagraph (A) shall be treated in the same manner as a refund due from a credit provision referred to in subsection (b)(2) of such section." Refundable
Occhis
Member
Are you saying that if one does not take the credit from the dealer that he does not get the same tax credit treatment and can only get the full 7500 credit if his total tax for the year is over 7500? Don’t know why anyone would not take the dealer credit, but it sounds discriminatory to someone that does not.
MagnusMako
Member
This is correct. Read the fine print. There's two ways to go about the tax credit and the point of sale is obviously the no brainer option.
Exactly, if you are eligible at all take the credit at time of sale. There's no downside.
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