Discussion: Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Plenty of people have picked up new M3 & MY in the last few weeks with TeslaVision, but they're mostly Tesla newbies so they don't really know how it could or should be working. I'm sure we'll continue to see more reports in the coming weeks.

I'm not aware of anyone with the version of the software that replaces the functionality lost by removing the radar. At least, not anyone without an NDA.

The whining is all about the short-term loss in functionality, and then the worry that there'll be long-term loss in functionality.

But currently no-one knows whether Tesla will be able to get back the lost functionality in the next month or so, or whether that'll take longer.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I guess to check for a radar physically, you need to take the front bumper off to visualize it.

Up thread you can actually check if a radar is connected by popping out the frunk button:
Master Thread: New Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

 

[Arizona Willie]

What will happen to people with Teslas that have radar now?

Will Tesla upgrade us to the new Vision system?

Are we stuck with an old system that will not be updates anymore?

 

[tech_nerd]

What will happen to people with Teslas that have radar now?

Will Tesla upgrade us to the new Vision system?

Are we stuck with an old system that will not be updates anymore?

Once the bugs are worked out of TeslaVision, I'm sure they will remove radar support from the older vehicles, thats why they didn't change any of the cameras on newer vehicles.

 

[WhiteWi]

Once the bugs are worked out of TeslaVision, I'm sure they will remove radar support from the older vehicles, thats why they didn't change any of the cameras on newer vehicles.

If TV ends up as good or better than Cars with Radar I have no problem with Tesla disabling radars on our older cars.

 

[activehavoc]

I'm not aware of anyone with the version of the software that replaces the functionality lost by removing the radar. At least, not anyone without an NDA.

The whining is all about the short-term loss in functionality, and then the worry that there'll be long-term loss in functionality.

But currently no-one knows whether Tesla will be able to get back the lost functionality in the next month or so, or whether that'll take longer.

The whining is not about the loss of the secondary functionalities, it is about the real possible degradation of forward collision warning and emergency breaking... Like... do we need auto-highbeams for these features to work properly?

 

[id436eg9045]

This is the owner of a TeslaVision-only Model Y who has been doing a lot of testing since taking delivery. AEB and FCW are both tested here.

 

[Platini]

The whining is not about the loss of the secondary functionalities, it is about the real possible degradation of forward collision warning and emergency breaking... Like... do we need auto-highbeams for these features to work properly?

Correct. From a first principles view it is impossible for a vision only system to match the performance of radar in a situation where the car in front of the car in front of you suddenly hits the brakes. Vision cannot see around the car in front. Radar can.

 

[mjwh]

This is the owner of a TeslaVision-only Model Y who has been doing a lot of testing since taking delivery. AEB and FCW are both tested here.

So tl;dr— it works about as well on the key safety features as a radar backed system in normal daytime and nighttime conditions

 

[cylonmode]

So tl;dr— it works about as well on the key safety features as a radar backed system in normal daytime and nighttime conditions

In rain, not so much...

 

[chisss]

As I said, I haven’t had a chance to test it in the rain but at night it sucks because you’re blinding the drivers in front of you with the high beams.

Another thing that I noticed today is the headlights come on at dusk where there’s no need for lights. I was driving today and it was just cloudy and the headlights came on. I’m assuming because the system needs them on in cae you use AP but clearly there was no need for them to be on. just using up battery for no reason.
I really do hope something miraculously comes from this. That they have some super high tech cameras that nobody new about and does everything that it needs. Haha

 

[cylonmode]

I hate to say it but I can see this as being a long term development project... I'm glad I still have radar for as long as its active (hopefully forever), I'd have second thoughts on getting a brand new Tesla right now...

 

[guzzijones12]

Coming from a data engineer who works with ML I can tell you that the radar feature set is just noise to a visual feature set. (Except for the cars in front of other cars.)

The real issue Tesla is most likely having is overpasses. The radar doesn't give you a Z coordinate only X and Y or 2 dimensions. Thus the radar is going to have features that tell the ML model that you are approaching an obstruction. The visual features are most likely compressed to the point where the radar is overriding. It sounds like even with millions of miles of training they still can't train the model to ignore overpasses. Which makes sense if the images it uses are compressed.

Thus dropping radar will remove this hinderance at the cost of losing 'cars in front of cars' features from radar.

I saw this exact issue last weekend in MD on the Turnpike in Western MD. Each overpass would cause the car to start breaking. The solution is to drop the radar.

 

[Platini]

Looking behind the frunk button door, yes the radar 7 pin harness still exists. Look like it was waiting there for the services center to complete the task.

Has anyone tried to buy a radar unit at eBay and plugging it in? Theoretically it should work, since both radar and non radar cars are now on the same software version. I assume that the software looks after a reboot to see if there's a radar plugged in or not.
Here is a New Tesla Continental Radar Sensor Made in Germany for $95: Tesla Model 3 Front Radar Seven Pin Perpendicular OEM 2016-2018 1108647-00-b New | eBay

 

[Tam]

Has anyone tried to buy a radar unit at eBay and plugging it in? Theoretically it should work, since both radar and non radar cars are now on the same software version. I assume that the software looks after a reboot to see if there's a radar plugged in or not.

I doubt adding radar yourself would work with the software because Tesla keeps track of which car has which hardware, which car was missing a regular chip, and now got a different chip from a different supplier... Which one paid for the Supercharger function and which one not (early Model S 40 and 60 kwh has an option to pay to activate Supercharger function)...

 

[MP3Mike]

Theoretically it should work, since both radar and non radar cars are now on the same software version. I assume that the software looks after a reboot to see if there's a radar plugged in or not.

Nope, just like with everything in a Tesla it isn't plug-n-play, it is all controlled by configuration files on the Gateway computer. If the Gateway configuration says "No radar" it won't even look to see if a radar is hooked up.

 

[cylonmode]

Coming from a data engineer who works with ML I can tell you that the radar feature set is just noise to a visual feature set. (Except for the cars in front of other cars.)

The real issue Tesla is most likely having is overpasses. The radar doesn't give you a Z coordinate only X and Y or 2 dimensions. Thus the radar is going to have features that tell the ML model that you are approaching an obstruction. The visual features are most likely compressed to the point where the radar is overriding. It sounds like even with millions of miles of training they still can't train the model to ignore overpasses. Which makes sense if the images it uses are compressed.

Thus dropping radar will remove this hinderance at the cost of losing 'cars in front of cars' features from radar.

I saw this exact issue last weekend in MD on the Turnpike in Western MD. Each overpass would cause the car to start breaking. The solution is to drop the radar.

I've NEVER had this problem...

 

[Radlaw]

It is my understanding, that Tesla will be changing its driving safety features from radar to camera controlled. Maybe they already have. Apparently the safety council has concerns and dropped Tesla from #1 in its safety rankings. Does anyone know more about this? Will this affect those cars which now have the radar system? Any info about this will be appreciated. Why would Tesla do such a thing? Did the recent accidents have anything to do with this decision?

 

[sychotix]

Master Thread: New Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y There is a master thread on this

===========================

(moderator note: moved separate thread into master thread, which is why this comment about the master thread is in the master thread)

 

[Gimmethecash]

…and a Tesla Support article