Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[Knightshade]

The company who did the "likely flawed" report is Quality Control Systems Corp- and they dismissed the data from all but 5,714 vehicles of the total 43,781 vehicles in the data set to reach that conclusion...

QCS, which appears to be a 1-man operation, as I think someone explained in a previous thread, has been going after Tesla for a few years now- presumably on someone else's dime doing so.... so not sure why I'd trust their analysis of the data more than NHTSAs.

 

[rking0122]

This thread has kind of gone all over the place. Is there any consensus though about if we do this, if we spend the 2K on FSD, we will get the hardware upgrades?

I am an AP2.0 November 2016 build MS with EAP. I do not have the option in my Tesla account to do this, so they told me to go to the service center. Have an appointment for that, as well as the airbag recall issue, tomorrow.

Any advice is welcome.

 

[Knightshade]

This thread has kind of gone all over the place. Is there any consensus though about if we do this, if we spend the 2K on FSD, we will get the hardware upgrades?.

To be clear- it's not "upgrades" it a single upgrade- swapping the current AP computer for the new HW3 one

Tesla has repeatedly and consistently said anybody who buys FSD gets the HW3 upgrade. As long ago as last August, and as recently as like a week ago.

Why people keep trying to find excuses to think this isn't true is a bit baffling- Tesla's been surprisingly clear and consistent on this.

 

[Eno Deb]

QCS, which appears to be a 1-man operation, as I think someone explained in a previous thread, has been going after Tesla for a few years now- presumably on someone else's dime doing so.... so not sure why I'd trust their analysis of the data more than NHTSAs.

Yep, that's it. It must be a conspiracy by "the shorts" or other dark forces and needs to be attacked, whereas every marketing claim by Tesla has to be accepted as fact without questioning, even if their own source contradicts them. How naive can you be?

 

[Knightshade]

Yep, that's it. It must be a conspiracy by "the shorts" or other dark forces and needs to be attacked, whereas every marketing claim by Tesla has to be accepted as fact without questioning, even if their own source contradicts them. How naive can you be?

...what?

Unless you think the NHTSA themselves are in the bag for Tesla this comment makes no sense.

I'm pointing out QCS only reached their "rebuttal" by throwing out 85% of the data the NHTSA thinks was just fine. The full data set is available to the public if you wish to review it yourself and determine if that was a reasonable thing to do or not.

We know this one-person company has been going after Tesla for several years at a minimum- and they don't work for free, so somebody is paying them to cherry pick through data and do hit pieces on Tesla. These are all facts.

None require conspiracy "theories" they just require looking at the actual facts and data available. Maybe give that a shot?

 

[DylanM]

I’ll think about the $2k upgrade when Tesla gets me my spoiler.

 

[rking0122]

To be clear- it's not "upgrades" it a single upgrade- swapping the current AP computer for the new HW3 one

Tesla has repeatedly and consistently said anybody who buys FSD gets the HW3 upgrade. As long ago as last August, and as recently as like a week ago.

Why people keep trying to find excuses to think this isn't true is a bit baffling- Tesla's been surprisingly clear and consistent on this.

I know what they’ve said.

But there are a subset of drivers like me with AP2.0 (less of us with 2.0 than 2.5) with less sophisticated cameras or sensors or whatever compared to AP2.5. I guess we would assume the sensors in the AP2.0 cars would work then, even though they were updated in 2.5.

I saw they were now already raising prices on some of the M3 cars, so for me, I’m not completely sure how long the 2k FSD will actually last.

Who knows.

 

[Knightshade]

I know what they’ve said.

But there are a subset of drivers like me with AP2.0 (less of us with 2.0 than 2.5) with less sophisticated cameras or sensors or whatever compared to AP2.5. I guess we would assume the sensors in the AP2.0 cars would work then, even though they were updated in 2.5.

Here's what Tesla said at the time-


“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1,” the spokesperson said. “This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”

He added that all new Model S, X, and 3 vehicles ordered today will be delivered with the new hardware suite, and promised to upgrade any current HW 2.0-equipped Tesla on the road today with HW 2.5 if full autonomy is unachievable.

“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0,” the spokesperson said. “If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.”



The "if you bought FSD and your HW can't do it you get a free upgrade to something that can when FSD is ready" promise has been around for years, even back in the 2->2.5 change.

It's one of the few promises Tesla has been very consistent about being clear on.

Yet weirdly everyone keeps acting like they've never said anything about it.

 

[JPWhite]

Even if Tesla can make FSD work with HW2.5 it will only do so initially. It is inevitable that as the software matures it will require more hardware resources which will exceed the capabilities of HW2.5.

Here's hoping Tesla deem HW2.5 unsuitable and upgrade FSD owners to HW3.0 at no extra cost.

Here's hoping.

 

[Glamisduner]

Even if Tesla can make FSD work with HW2.5 it will only do so initially. It is inevitable that as the software matures it will require more hardware resources which will exceed the capabilities of HW2.5.

Here's hoping Tesla deem HW2.5 unsuitable and upgrade FSD owners to HW3.0 at no extra cost.

Here's hoping.

Yea, I wonder if the 2.5 Full Self Driving package is not the same as actual Full Self Driving (Requires HW3). Storm is brewing!

 

[schnieds]

Here's what Tesla said at the time-


“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1,” the spokesperson said. “This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”

He added that all new Model S, X, and 3 vehicles ordered today will be delivered with the new hardware suite, and promised to upgrade any current HW 2.0-equipped Tesla on the road today with HW 2.5 if full autonomy is unachievable.

“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0,” the spokesperson said. “If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.”



The "if you bought FSD and your HW can't do it you get a free upgrade to something that can when FSD is ready" promise has been around for years, even back in the 2->2.5 change.

It's one of the few promises Tesla has been very consistent about being clear on.

Yet weirdly everyone keeps acting like they've never said anything about it.

Could you share the source? I have been waiting on pulling the trigger on my M3 order for AP HW v3 and if there is a strong chance I will either get v3 in a new order or as an upgrade with the FSD package I am going to place the order.

 

[OCR1]

If it’s so clear that HW3 is included in the price of FSD, the solution seems simple. Ask them to put it in writing on the invoice for your order.

 

[Knightshade]

Could you share the source? I have been waiting on pulling the trigger on my M3 order for AP HW v3 and if there is a strong chance I will either get v3 in a new order or as an upgrade with the FSD package I am going to place the order.

On the 2.5 quote? It was widely reported, here among other places-

https://electrek.co/2017/08/09/tesla-autopilot-2-5-hardware-computer-autonomous-driving/
and
Tesla has been working on a backup plan in case its self-driving promises fail
and
Tesla Confirms an Autopilot Hardware Update for All New Vehicles


and more if you want to search for em

If it’s so clear that HW3 is included in the price of FSD, the solution seems simple. Ask them to put it in writing on the invoice for your order.

Were the numerous other times Tesla put this in writing, on multiple occasions, and also explicitly stated it on their quarterly investor calls, not sufficient for you?

 

[Knightshade]

Here's hoping Tesla deem HW2.5 unsuitable and upgrade FSD owners to HW3.0 at no extra cost.

Here's hoping.

Not sure why you're hoping. Tesla has explicitly said it would over and over again

Why do you people refuse to take yes for an answer?

 

[OCR1]

Not sure why you're hoping. Tesla has explicitly said it would over and over again

Why do you people refuse to take yes for an answer?

I think you are being a bit gullible. You continue to push this issue on the forum but nobody else who contributes here seems to be as confident as you of this. If you are so sure this is the case, call Tesla corporate and ask them to add this guarantee into the product description on the web site. Surely they will be happy to do this if it's so abundantly clear. It's no different than we would expect from any other mature company that properly describes what they are asking you to pay thousands of dollars for, rather than making you sift through tweets and investor calls to piece it together. Come on...why are you so stuck on your position of this when so many other people have the same question? If you feel so strongly that it's a non issue that's your call. But there are some very wise people on this forum who have been around the business world for a long time who don't see it your way, and you refuse to see any position other than your own.

 

[mbman81]

The devil is in the details. Now EAP features are considered FSD features. So yes this hardware can do FSD, but not fully. And future iterations unlikely. Will they say “well you were able to do FSD features, just not everything that HW3.0 can do, etc”.

 

[wokuku]

I think you are being a bit gullible. You continue to push this issue on the forum but nobody else who contributes here seems to be as confident as you of this. If you are so sure this is the case, call Tesla corporate and ask them to add this guarantee into the product description on the web site. Surely they will be happy to do this if it's so abundantly clear. It's no different than we would expect from any other mature company that properly describes what they are asking you to pay thousands of dollars for, rather than making you sift through tweets and investor calls to piece it together. Come on...why are you so stuck on your position of this when so many other people have the same question? If you feel so strongly that it's a non issue that's your call. But there are some very wise people on this forum who have been around the business world for a long time who don't see it your way, and you refuse to see any position other than your own.

Agreed. All Tesla has to do is put HW3 hardware upgrade included into FSD description/order. As of this writing the FSD upgrade description on my account is still extremely vague with the only promise been continuous over-the-air software upgrade.

 

[Thomas Edison]

The devil is in the details. Now EAP features are considered FSD features. So yes this hardware can do FSD, but not fully. And future iterations unlikely. Will they say “well you were able to do FSD features, just not everything that HW3.0 can do, etc”.

This is why I’m hesitating.

 

[outie]

It's going to be $4k starting next Monday. Grab your credit card folks!

 

[Glamisduner]

It's going to be $4k starting next Monday. Grab your credit card folks!

Indeed, this tweet changing my opinion quite a bit. My Original thoughts are no longer completly valid.

Elon Musk on Twitter

It appears Elon recognized the mistakes being made. So this may possibly be your last stab to get FSD at a cheaper price. I would totally buy both for 5k as I stated before, I'm undecided if buying for 7k (2k more) now is good or not. Will it be offered for 1k later, $1500, do we get HW3?? I would lock the thread here if I could as I no longer support my original view assuming the tweet is correct honest attempt to correct things. I still think it might be better to buy later, but if HW3 is part of it, makes it more tempting.

All that said, drive on nav asked me to change lanes into a concrete barrier (on my left) in the carpool lane on my way home tonight, So I think we are a ways off on auto lane change without being prompted Or maybe that was just another way to correct the problem lol. I'm on 2019.15.5